Thread: My film "judders" more than commercial films. . .

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  1. #1 My film "judders" more than commercial films. . . 
    Hi all. . .

    As I watch burns of our films, they are much, much jumpier or "strobier" than commercially-produced material. It was shot using either a RED One or a Scarlet-Dragon and all burns came through Premiere Pro.

    There are no issues where there is no movement, but when the camera moves or things move across the frame (particularly bright objects), the motion characteristics are MUCH more noticeable than with a "regular" DVD or Bluray.

    We shot at 23.976. We have been burning using H.264 HD 1080p CBR 35.

    Any ideas what the issue might be and if it is correctable?

    Thanks.

    Stephen
    Scarlet Dragon with Canon, Sigma, and Tokina lenses and the Optitron 2 wireless focus system
    First feature film, Works in Progress, out on DVD (Vanguard Cinema) and online.
    Second feature film, the miniseries Terminal, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8RQ488
    Third feature film, The Tree, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JJ179RP
    Fourth feature film, The Land, currently under review at film festivals around the world.
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  2. #2  
    Are you making 24p MPEGs? If they get encoded as 29.97 in the chain, then the judder shows up more.
    How about shutter rate when shot of the scene in question?
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  3. #3  
    Just burning a .mp4. Shutter was always set to 180 degrees.
    Scarlet Dragon with Canon, Sigma, and Tokina lenses and the Optitron 2 wireless focus system
    First feature film, Works in Progress, out on DVD (Vanguard Cinema) and online.
    Second feature film, the miniseries Terminal, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8RQ488
    Third feature film, The Tree, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JJ179RP
    Fourth feature film, The Land, currently under review at film festivals around the world.
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  4. #4  
    Here is a sample from one of the films. To me, it shows some rather dramatic judder in many areas. Is it possible that this is normal and my vision isn't??? That is, maybe I see it more than most people?

    https://vimeo.com/249863984

    Thanks.

    Stephen
    Scarlet Dragon with Canon, Sigma, and Tokina lenses and the Optitron 2 wireless focus system
    First feature film, Works in Progress, out on DVD (Vanguard Cinema) and online.
    Second feature film, the miniseries Terminal, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8RQ488
    Third feature film, The Tree, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JJ179RP
    Fourth feature film, The Land, currently under review at film festivals around the world.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Bill Totolo's Avatar
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    Seems ok on my 2010 15" MBP, I believe I'm set to 60Hz.
    Bill Totolo
    billtotolo.com
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  6. #6  
    Thanks, Bill. . .

    I guess it's me.

    :-(
    Scarlet Dragon with Canon, Sigma, and Tokina lenses and the Optitron 2 wireless focus system
    First feature film, Works in Progress, out on DVD (Vanguard Cinema) and online.
    Second feature film, the miniseries Terminal, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R8RQ488
    Third feature film, The Tree, currently available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JJ179RP
    Fourth feature film, The Land, currently under review at film festivals around the world.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Pruitt View Post
    As I watch burns of our films, they are much, much jumpier or "strobier" than commercially-produced material. It was shot using either a RED One or a Scarlet-Dragon and all burns came through Premiere Pro. There are no issues where there is no movement, but when the camera moves or things move across the frame (particularly bright objects), the motion characteristics are MUCH more noticeable than with a "regular" DVD or Bluray.
    What kind of monitor? How was it calibrated?

    I have actually seen some pretty awful judder/flicker artifacts even on current TV series on occasion, and this is on a calibrated LG C7 OLED. I think HDR amplifies the problem even more, and there's been some wretched stuff on some of the Marvel shows in very high-contrast situations, like a pan of a room with extremely hot windows behind a very dark character moving right to left. This is the sort of thing that great DPs can minimize, adjusting shutter angle and other exposure-related factors during production.

    I would also step through the scene frame-by-frame and see how much of this is due to rolling shutter. I think the newer Red cameras have reduced this quite a bit from the Red One and the Scarlet; the stuff I've seen from Helium looks pretty spectacular and I'd say subjectively the rolling shutter artifacts have been reduced at least by a third. I think the Alexas have even less of it, but a lot (as I say) depends on exposure and the nature of the shot.

    If you're really that concerned about it, you could contact MTI Film in Hollywood and see if they could do a test for you on the worst scenes and find out if the flicker/judder problem could be reduced. If it's under a minute or so, it won't cost a fortune to fix. If it's a lot of material, then all bets are off.
    marc wielage, csi colorist/post consultant daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    I would also step through the scene frame-by-frame and see how much of this is due to rolling shutter. I think the newer Red cameras have reduced this quite a bit from the Red One and the Scarlet; the stuff I've seen from Helium looks pretty spectacular and I'd say subjectively the rolling shutter artifacts have been reduced at least by a third. I think the Alexas have even less of it, but a lot (as I say) depends on exposure and the nature of the shot.
    Actually, technically the rolling shutter on Helium 8K is worse than Dragon 6K, because twice the data is pipping through a similar architecture....if you look carefully Helium 8K actually has noticeably more rolling shutter, sometimes very obviously...this is one of the few areas where Dragon excels in comparison (that and higher frame rates over larger parts of the sensor)
    Nick Morrison
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