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  1. #1 Monstro DXL 
    Happy to hear that Panavision is putting some Monster sensor boards into some of their DXL bodies.

    The ecosystem gets bigger......
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  2. #2  
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  3. #3  
    any one knows how many of these cams is actually around?
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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    any one knows how many of these cams is actually around?
    DXLs?

    A long, long while back they had over 30. I'm betting it's at least twice that since I last checked in.

    I see them popping up everywhere these days.

    I know there's more than one Monstro DXL at the moment. PV has been testing the sensor out aggressively nearly at the same time as myself.

    We're like two hawks flying at different ends of the park eyeballing and hunting the same prey :)
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Russ Fill's Avatar
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    My bet is on you Phil to deliver a work sheet of what the Monstro can do before we ever hear much from PV about it.
    I would love to see what PV's color science is doing with the Monstro sensored bodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    DXLs?

    A long, long while back they had over 30. I'm betting it's at least twice that since I last checked in.

    I see them popping up everywhere these days.

    I know there's more than one Monstro DXL at the moment. PV has been testing the sensor out aggressively nearly at the same time as myself.

    We're like two hawks flying at different ends of the park eyeballing and hunting the same prey :)
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  6. #6  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Fill View Post
    My bet is on you Phil to deliver a work sheet of what the Monstro can do before we ever hear much from PV about it.
    I would love to see what PV's color science is doing with the Monstro sensored bodies.
    Well I could post some stuff now, but where's the fun in that. Shooting some pretty footage too :)

    Panavision's got the ability to do a few interesting things with the DXL that we "can't" do in the sense of how they "tune" the sensor. They did this on Dragon 8K VV and I suspect they might do this on Monstro 8K VV, though I'm very unsure.

    This is actually a very interesting subject matter as RED certainly is leading the way on the sensor tech front and compared to what others are doing at the moment digital cinema cameras it shows. Specifically I'm hinting at the Venice's 6K sensor and "base ISO" of 500 and why they want you to stay around there.


    Monstro's got some super cool sauce under the hood. I'm working with ISO CAL 2, which is 1 stop higher than RED's previous ratings. ISO 800 for example is what was ISO 1600 under the previous calibration. This is mainly to combat the concept that RED doesn't match up with light meters typically, or more accurately in practical experience, doesn't match up with "certain other cameras". ISO CAL 2 solves that.

    One "DP thing" I've seen done on set is whipping out a meter, lighting a scene, and opening the lens up one stop from where they lit to. Saw that in action on a big shoot up in San Fran a bit ago. While an interesting technique, I just preferred to calibrate my light meter to my cameras as that's the better/accurate solution really. Now that's not really a problem and I hope DPs don't expose blindly without checking against the image in camera in particular.

    Back to Monstro. So knowing that info with the new ISO CAL 2, ISO 800-3200 looks pretty damn banging considering where it actually is.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro "Skully"

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    DXLs?

    A long, long while back they had over 30. I'm betting it's at least twice that since I last checked in.

    I see them popping up everywhere these days.

    I know there's more than one Monstro DXL at the moment. PV has been testing the sensor out aggressively nearly at the same time as myself.

    We're like two hawks flying at different ends of the park eyeballing and hunting the same prey :)
    Aha, I have not been to LA lately and here in northen europe there is no PV rentalplaces so I never even seen one in real.

    But most likely Im fly to LA in Jan, will try to convince production to go the PV route then. Really want to see this thingy in action, only seen the primos on alexa before.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    [...]

    Monstro's got some super cool sauce under the hood. I'm working with ISO CAL 2, which is 1 stop higher than RED's previous ratings. ISO 800 for example is what was ISO 1600 under the previous calibration. This is mainly to combat the concept that RED doesn't match up with light meters typically, or more accurately in practical experience, doesn't match up with "certain other cameras". ISO CAL 2 solves that.
    According to RED's own technical whitepaper (Form 915-0187 Rev A – ECO 011345 (11/16)):

    Log3G10 is named for its key properties. The 3G represents the mapping of 18% mid grey to 1/3, and the 10 represents the extent of the log curve encoding a linear light value up to 10 stops above mid grey (0.18 * 2^10 = 184.32) before the curve reaches an output value of 1.0.
    Log3G10 therefore gives us the ability to do something in the RED world we have never been able to do before: check that our ISO calibration is, in fact accurate. To do this, illuminate an industry-standard 18% grey card and meter it with an industry-standard light meter set to ISO 800. Using any shutter speed/aperture combination corresponding to the metered value, we can shoot the aforementioned grey card, load the RAW file into RCX, and then adjust the ISO setting until the predominant value is as close to 1/3 as possible. If, under ISO CAL 2, the best setting is 800, then indeed ISO CAL 2 solves it. If, under ISO CAL 1, the best setting is 800, then actually ISO CAL 1 solved it. If neither of them hits the target at ISO 800, then perhaps we should look forward to ISO CAL 3. Log3G10 takes all of the guesswork out of this, simplifying the problem to the really important question: how do you want to spend your sensor's dynamic range budget to maximize the quality/impact/value of the shot you are making.
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tiemann View Post
    Log3G10 therefore gives us the ability to do something in the RED world we have never been able to do before: check that our ISO calibration is, in fact accurate. To do this, illuminate an industry-standard 18% grey card and meter it with an industry-standard light meter set to ISO 800. Using any shutter speed/aperture combination corresponding to the metered value, we can shoot the aforementioned grey card, load the RAW file into RCX, and then adjust the ISO setting until the predominant value is as close to 1/3 as possible. If, under ISO CAL 2, the best setting is 800, then indeed ISO CAL 2 solves it. If, under ISO CAL 1, the best setting is 800, then actually ISO CAL 1 solved it. If neither of them hits the target at ISO 800, then perhaps we should look forward to ISO CAL 3. Log3G10 takes all of the guesswork out of this, simplifying the problem to the really important question: how do you want to spend your sensor's dynamic range budget to maximize the quality/impact/value of the shot you are making.
    Already tested it, but the key variable in this test is "industry-standard light meter". There's a healthy amount of variance between a lot of the meters. And there's more accurate ways to measure it as well. I'm mostly focused on Sekonic as it's what's in my kit and have a box with a few others.

    As for the Log3G10 definition, pretty sure that's in relationship to exposed for values. You've always been able to "measure" what RED's have been exposing at, sort of how we got to here.

    Which is back to the original point of nailing the exposure between the meter and the camera and also "knowing" the lens is accurate within 3-6% of a stop (often a bigger issue these days despite the purpose/definition of T Stops).

    We're happily within an acceptable tolerance with ISO CAL 2.

    But I'll add the caveat that it's always good to check your meters. Especially those crazy phone thingies.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    RED Weapon 8K VV Dragon "Orochi"
    RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro "Skully"

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    I'm working with ISO CAL 2, which is 1 stop higher than RED's previous ratings. ISO 800 for example is what was ISO 1600 under the previous calibration. This is mainly to combat the concept that RED doesn't match up with light meters typically, or more accurately in practical experience, doesn't match up with "certain other cameras". ISO CAL 2 solves that. .
    Which is a long way to say ... 18% grey is now at IRE 41%-42% in Rec. 709.

    Where EVERYONE (not just Alexa shooters) expect it to be :)
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