Thread: Bad footage online - correlation vs causation?

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  1. #1 Bad footage online - correlation vs causation? 
    Junior Member
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    Sep 2015
    So I'm on the fence between the Raven and the Scarlet-W...and I have to say..I'm a bit concerned by some of the footage I've seen from the Raven.

    Have any tests been done regarding dynamic range/possible motion cadence differences in the Raven? Almost none of the footage I've seen has the same 'spark' as the Scarlet-W. I'm aware it could be because of amateurs using the camera but even simple tests on the Scarlet look great.

    Anyone else share this sentiment? Is the Raven a true downgrade from the rest of the lineup or is it just "user error" I'm seeing?
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  2. #2  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
    Los Angeles
    I'll provide some perspective on what I see.

    In terms of the technical merit, Raven at 4.5K 2.1:1 max res is identical to Scarlet-W. Both are Dragon. As long as you're at the same REDCODE RAW Compression Ratio and Resolution you will be identical image quality performance.

    That out of the way, Raven is RED's true entry level camera at the moment. I get to meet and chat with all sorts of RED shooters. Everything from those working on 100 million dollar productions and those working with DIY gear out of their garage as well as everything in between.

    In particular I've met Raven and Scarlet-W shooters where this is their first camera, sometimes even first experience with any camera. Whether you are a 20 year veteran or never swapped a lens before, you have a camera that creates footage.

    The internet makes everything available as people improve their abilities and shooting techniques. You'll see feature quality images from these cameras and you'll see some of the earliest experiments and tests for some shooters. IMO, that's some of what's out there.

    On a total side note, there's a great deal of RED shooters who don't post their stuff online and mention their gear for a variety of reasons. About 85% of my own work is unfortunately that way. These cameras are out there shooting everything you can imagine. Cooking shows, indi films, reality TV, streaming episodic, natural history, docs, weird crazy technical shoots, etc.....

    In relationship to it being a downgrade, the biggest differences I see with Raven versus Scarlet-W are: 5K resolution, interchangeable lens mounts, interchangeable OLPFs, and a known availability of an upgrade path for Scarlet-W. Raven is a fixed Canon EF Mount.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________ IMDB
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member
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    Jan 2013
    Why not rent out both and see for yourself?

    4K on Red tends to be soft... but Dynamic range should be similar.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member
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    Apr 2015
    Hobart, Tasmania
    As Phil said they are both dragon sensors so I would choose on;

    1. Do you mainly shoot 16:9?
    From my understanding the Scarlet W shots 5K in 16:9
    The Raven is more wide screen in aspect ratio so you need to shoot 4K to get 16:9 (or crop the sides of a 4.5K file)

    2. Do you have EF mount lenses?
    The Raven has a fixed EF mount.
    Scarlet W allows multiple lens mounts.

    3. whats your budget?
    There are a lot of accessories to include to get a good working camera.
    Batteries, Media, rig, audio module?
    I personally need an EVF as I would be hopeless trying to focus of a 4.5 LCD outdoors.
    I have a sound devices Mix pre 3 rigged to the back of the camera to record audio.

    For me the Raven ticked enough boxes to not feel the need to go the the Scarlet W.
    I have also spent probably around $7,000 on media, EVF, rig & audio capture solution.
    Raven, 6x Zeiss CP.2, 2x Zeiss zooms, 3x Nikon zooms, Sachtler tripod, Dana Slider, Ezyrig, SD Mix Pre 3, Sprinter Van with lighting kit for hire.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
    Raven shot in HD aspect ratio maxes out at 4KHD.

    Scarlet-W in HD aspect ration maxes out at 5KHD

    Big difference IMHO.

    Raven is ONLY 4.5K when shooting WS, something to keep in mind.
    Nick Morrison
    Founder, Director & Lead Creative
    // SMALL GIANT //
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