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  1. #471  
    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Thats bull.

    Arri is possibly used more in high budget commercials and films. But the reasons you list are both old and not really valid. Bayham has orange skin tones even on those shots he capture on 70mm film. And for Söderbergs colors, sorry for saying so, they been bad even when he was shooting film. So what you refer to is taste, peoples knowhow, lights etc but not the performance of the different cameras.

    And yes, it´s of course so that filmmakers in general also have taste when it comes to camera gear. DP´s that shoot the big features are usually older, they are nostalgic about celluloid and the tools they used for working with film. And further more they are usually old enough so they are normally not saying, "thats so cool!" when they see the skull logo and the word weapon engraved on a red cam, on the contrary. Skate kids on the other hand that enters the industry and want to make big films really like the skull logo... Those kids are huge in numbers and they shoot and post stuff on the web that usually looks quite bad, as those kids don't have the lightning experience, nor budget for the arri sky panels when they shoot.

    And when those kids shoot something and it does not look like their hollywood reference, they point at the camera and think thats what is at fault.


    I work with alexa and red mixed footage all the time as its quite normal the camera crew prefer Alexa but then I also need the resolution, speed, HDRx and other qualities of the imagery that only red has.

    Here is a commercial we just made, shot with 3 alexas, 2 mini and 1 studio then also some shots in there I shot on helium. Please as you are so good at telling the difference between Arri and red, look it trough and let us know what shots where RED shots.

    You're right, I can't tell, but I'd like to guess. Is it the caves where the Helium was used?
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  2. #472  
    Senior Member Mathias Erichsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Thats bull.

    Arri is possibly used more in high budget commercials and films. But the reasons you list are both old and not really valid. Bayham has orange skin tones even on those shots he capture on 70mm film. And for Söderbergs colors, sorry for saying so, they been bad even when he was shooting film. So what you refer to is taste, peoples knowhow, lights etc but not the performance of the different cameras.

    And yes, it´s of course so that filmmakers in general also have taste when it comes to camera gear. DP´s that shoot the big features are usually older, they are nostalgic about celluloid and the tools they used for working with film. And further more they are usually old enough so they are normally not saying, "thats so cool!" when they see the skull logo and the word weapon engraved on a red cam, on the contrary. Skate kids on the other hand that enters the industry and want to make big films really like the skull logo... Those kids are huge in numbers and they shoot and post stuff on the web that usually looks quite bad, as those kids don't have the lightning experience, nor budget for the arri sky panels when they shoot.

    And when those kids shoot something and it does not look like their hollywood reference, they point at the camera and think thats what is at fault.


    I work with alexa and red mixed footage all the time as its quite normal the camera crew prefer Alexa but then I also need the resolution, speed, HDRx and other qualities of the imagery that only red has.

    Here is a commercial we just made, shot with 3 alexas, 2 mini and 1 studio then also some shots in there I shot on helium. Please as you are so good at telling the difference between Arri and red, look it trough and let us know what shots where RED shots.

    WOW! This commercial it amazing!! :) What lenses did you shoot it on?
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  3. #473  
    Senior Member Ben Scott's Avatar
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    Fantastic piece of work Björn
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  4. #474  
    Senior Member Chris Jordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David J. Buchanan View Post
    This conversation is very fascinating but one that has gone on time and time again, but still I wonder is it true that Alexa has this great of IQ? I've been doing a lot of research and reading (only cause I'm thinking of switching) on Arri Alexa and I've been seening problems with green, and lots of noise. So it seems they have some, not all, but some of the same problems these RED cams are having.

    A long time ago a gaffer said to me, "Dave, Hollywood doesn't care what camera you shoot on." And he's right. They don't. If you can get your camera to work, then more power to you.

    Has anyone here even looked up their favorite cinematic films and seen what cameras and lenses they were shot on? Then the light schematics. It may be more about the light.
    "Hollywood doesn't care what camera you shoot on." Tell that to the more than 60% of my clients who insist on Mini.
    Very frustrating for me, since I LOVE my Helium. But, that speaks volumes. opinions aside, facts are facts.
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  5. #475  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Jordan View Post
    "Hollywood doesn't care what camera you shoot on." Tell that to the more than 60% of my clients who insist on Mini.
    Very frustrating for me, since I LOVE my Helium. But, that speaks volumes. opinions aside, facts are facts.
    Must be nice working with Warner Brothers. Wish I could get clients like that.
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  6. #476  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    Here is a commercial we just made, shot with 3 alexas, 2 mini and 1 studio then also some shots in there I shot on helium. Please as you are so good at telling the difference between Arri and red, look it trough and let us know what shots where RED shots.
    Just to play along... I'd say the shots of the crazy guy in the truck and the shots in the cave. Did I win?
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  7. #477  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Nagel View Post
    looks good color wise - from what one can tell considering it's a film noir with a felt gamma of 3.6.... ;-) U could put a cell phone shot in there and hide problems in the dark grade...

    Amateur camera shake on all shots inside the house. no money for a tripod ?... also, a 3.18 mins commercial ?


    I see your point though... it is quite an achievement that a 8K camera from 2016 manages to seamlessly intercut with a 2.8K cam from 2010 - on a 1080p delivery. I see the light now.

    I'm gonna have to think about this a for a while.


    why don't u take ur Helium 8K and compare it against Alexa65 @ 6.5K... u still got 1.5Ks more... I know the result.


    oh yeah.... why did u shoot the commercial on 6x Arris if ur Helium is the better cam ?

    Its posted in native alexa FF raw resolution and then 4k Upres delivery for the cinemas world wide.
    Then they pushed for 4k delivery trough social spreed and the 60 second coutdowns for Tv was 1080p.

    The vimeo link is 4k.

    The DP like arri, so does the AC´s and I will not argue with that. I got helium because I usually need higher res canvases for the VFX plates, I would not swap it for a mini even though it would save me a bit of money-
    Even if they would be available I could not fly around with a arri 65 or such, simply to big and heavy. But if it was even half possible to gather 3 Alexa 65 for a shoot I think many would do so but thats not really feasible for most.

    So no I don't have a Alexa 65 to compare to, very few does, you can not buy such camera and you can hardly rent it.

    And com on, The minis are not really from 2010.

    Shooting style and other artistic choices, like if its film noir or not is not really whats discussed here is it.


    Quote Originally Posted by David J. Buchanan View Post
    You're right, I can't tell, but I'd like to guess. Is it the caves where the Helium was used?

    Caves where all alexa. But some random slow shots of the mopeds, and some of the kids in the quarry where helium. And the first shot, but the first shot does not really count as it´s like 90% CG. Then cleanup plates for the above shots of the quarry and the ferries.

    [IMG]IMG_4578 by Björn Benckert, on Flickr[/IMG]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathias Erichsen View Post
    WOW! This commercial it amazing!! :) What lenses did you shoot it on?
    I did not shoot it, it was DP´d by Laurant TANGY using arri swingsshift lenses mostly and S4´s if I remember correctly.

    image by Björn Benckert, on Flickr

    image by Björn Benckert, on Flickr

    image by Björn Benckert, on Flickr

    image by Björn Benckert, on Flickr


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  8. #478  
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    @Björn B

    It's funny that Mike N "Pushes your buttons" and WE get to see some of the wonderful work you have done. Stuff you post almost makes one "Ache" at the sheer effort and number of very long hours to pull that all together even for the shortest sequence.

    It's cool I'm becoming a bit of secret fan of the Syndicate, and also cool to learn that some of the things I really like or have visually stuck in my mind I later learn were done by "You guys"...

    The David Bowie BLACKSTAR sequences are really memorable and unusual for sure ... Especially as the theme demands light that is somehow "Black"... From literally a "Black" "Star", (as the song goes),

    Wonderful technical work especially with the Milo platform [Precision IS key (damn straight!)], and your CG "Plates"/backgrounds for Creating a Factory are really superb.

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    I was hoping it was going to be a "Trick" question, where you go "HA... It was all shot on Helium".
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  9. #479  
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    Thanks for sharing all of those stills and info! Great work.
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  10. #480  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lange View Post
    @Björn B

    It's funny that Mike N "Pushes your buttons" and WE get to see some of the wonderful work you have done. Stuff you post almost makes one "Ache" at the sheer effort and number of very long hours to pull that all together even for the shortest sequence.

    It's cool I'm becoming a bit of secret fan of the Syndicate, and also cool to learn that some of the things I really like or have visually stuck in my mind I later learn were done by "You guys"...

    The David Bowie BLACKSTAR sequences are really memorable and unusual for sure ... Especially as the theme demands light that is somehow "Black"... From literally a "Black" "Star", (as the song goes),

    Wonderful technical work especially with the Milo platform [Precision IS key (damn straight!)], and your CG "Plates"/backgrounds for Creating a Factory are really superb.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

    I was hoping it was going to be a "Trick" question, where you go "HA... It was all shot on Helium".
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin D'Haeze View Post
    Thanks for sharing all of those stills and info! Great work.

    Thanks for those words.

    Sorry for derailing though.
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