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  1. #11  
    I have found the same thing. Editors are very set in their ways as far as workflow is concerned. They do not like change and will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Red workflow.
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  2. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinoeye View Post
    I have found the same thing. Editors are very set in their ways as far as workflow is concerned. They do not like change and will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Red workflow.
    It's a massive amount of "mis-information".

    Anyone who read a few posts on Reduser or opened Redcine a few times claims to be a "Red Workflow" expert.

    We spend a lot of time - explaining to people what SOMEONE TOLD THEM, how they THINK it works, or what they HEARD - is just WRONG.

    Most of the time, we just tell people now, "forget everything you heard, everything you read, this is how we would handle your project, and these are you options."

    They stop kicking and screaming pretty quickly when they see how simple it can be.
    Mark L. Pederson
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  3. #13  
    Would spitting out to Prores as the cards came in really be that big a deal?

    What about just editing with the proxies (providing you could have a tower on the stage)?

    Maybe I'm not understanding what they want, but it seems like something could be worked out.


    On a similar note, some friends of mine took a trip to a post house for a class and talked to one of their DI guys (won't say the name, but rhymes with Boto-Mem).

    The DI guy was talking about digital cinema cameras (his favorite was the Genesis). When he got to the Red, he said "he didn't really want to bash the camera", but then preceded to bash the camera.

    He said it was impossible to get an accurate preview of what you're shooting. He claimed the camera shoots "stretched 2K" at best (I really wish I had been there for that gem). But most importantly he said the camera has no post workflow whatsoever.

    I have no idea what to do about situations like this, except to say that it will take time for people to learn.
    That's right. My avatar was shot using the Red.
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  4. #14  
    In these sorts of situations I feel it would be good for camera owners to have friendly technical editors available to help explain things to other editors and worried post-supervisors who are inexperienced with RED. I know that in Auckland there are a few of us who have been called upon to sooth frayed nerves before a RED shoot.

    Even if you know the answers yourself it can help to have a third party available to who can calm the nerves while not seeming to have a vested interest.
    Dylan Reeve
    Edit Geek
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  5. #15  
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    This has been an ongoing quest since 1080 was lost in the great firmware wars of '07. someone was working on a outboard box before but....

    I have played back 1080 from the camera to a pani 17" and the framing is different. I get the look room as well on my monitor which makes for some odd
    playback framiing, at least I think its the look room, so no go to record. unless
    your shooting with the look room as picture which is coming no?

    I just shot player intros for AFL division game and would have loved to show
    ESPN the benefits of Red but that kind of turn around is not there for Red.

    Scarlet....your wanted on set.
    Paul Hazlett
    Philadelphia Red #1350
    "Cheesesteak" EPIC-X #000257
    "Gertrude" Scarlet-X #000128
    phaz@verizon.net
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Mike Prevette's Avatar
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    the most impressive and simplest ways to deal with stuff like this is to arrange a quick demo. Anyone that thinks the Red workflow is anything short of amazing just doesnt know what they are looking at. I've been able to set up effective onset editing several times for clients of differing levels and garnished nothing but awe from clients agencies and post houses. it's just not as complicated as they think it is.
    _mike

    "One for a meal, One for the reel, or One to learn something"
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  7. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Harky View Post
    On a similar note, some friends of mine took a trip to a post house for a class and talked to one of their DI guys (won't say the name, but rhymes with Boto-Mem).
    The Los Angeles location of Boto-Mem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harky View Post
    The DI guy was talking about digital cinema cameras (his favorite was the Genesis). When he got to the Red, he said "he didn't really want to bash the camera", but then preceded to bash the camera.

    He said it was impossible to get an accurate preview of what you're shooting. He claimed the camera shoots "stretched 2K" at best (I really wish I had been there for that gem). But most importantly he said the camera has no post workflow whatsoever.
    He's welcome at Offhollywood anytime - I can show him how our 5th "all Red" feature film is moving through post with "no workflow whatsoever."

    He's really an HDTI guy - you know - so PRO-GENESIS - with the amazing HD TAPE INTERMEDIATE workflow and all -
    Mark L. Pederson
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harky View Post
    Would spitting out to Prores as the cards came in really be that big a deal?

    What about just editing with the proxies (providing you could have a tower on the stage)?

    Maybe I'm not understanding what they want, but it seems like something could be worked out.


    On a similar note, some friends of mine took a trip to a post house for a class and talked to one of their DI guys (won't say the name, but rhymes with Boto-Mem).

    The DI guy was talking about digital cinema cameras (his favorite was the Genesis). When he got to the Red, he said "he didn't really want to bash the camera", but then preceded to bash the camera.

    He said it was impossible to get an accurate preview of what you're shooting. He claimed the camera shoots "stretched 2K" at best (I really wish I had been there for that gem). But most importantly he said the camera has no post workflow whatsoever.

    I have no idea what to do about situations like this, except to say that it will take time for people to learn.

    Just as the camera was a "scam" in 06 so is the workflow in '08.
    patience and arrival of the SDK will make true believers out of the post world.
    mark my words...not you Mark Pederson, just a figure of speech.....
    Paul Hazlett
    Philadelphia Red #1350
    "Cheesesteak" EPIC-X #000257
    "Gertrude" Scarlet-X #000128
    phaz@verizon.net
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Harry Clark's Avatar
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    Sycophant,
    You're "spot-on" with the vested interest comment. Clearly I, as the Red camera owner, have a vested interest. I back off pretty quickly, though, when I see others working on the producers, agency, etc. with the misinformation about the workflow. I don't want to be the guy that pushes a certain camera on EVERYONE for EVERY project. I just want to shoot. It's a bummer I cannot use the Red on the jobs this week, but I'll still get lenses, etc. on for some rental income. Also, owning many different cameras gives my clients lots of options. So I can't really complain. It's just too bad we can't have our cake and eat it too... i.e., have cinema-quality 4K but real-time 1080p.
    Red Guy, I guess the plan is to have an additional HDCAM SR deck just for the guy to digitize from (at an additional rental); not sure how that's faster than proxies though! ;)
    And Mark is VERY "spot on" with his comments, as usual!
    Anyway, I'm over it. But it's worth discussing I guess...
    Cheers,
    Harry
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  10. #20  
    The Fotokem bashing is pretty hilarious.

    Be aware that there is a difference between their student tour division and the guys doing the high end DI projects.

    I too did NOT have a good experience with Fotokem as a student (flex file nightmares, crummy looking dailies, etc). The tour guy was patronizing too.

    Since working with them professionally on projects my views took a complete 180 however. People like Jose Parra, John Nicolard etc really know what they are doing.

    I'd work with them in a heartbeat.

    Yes Mark, I'd work with you in a hearbeat too, of course!

    But this bashing just makes Reduser and RED (by association) look stupid and unprofessional, like a bunch of arrogant film students complaining about the company tour. Like me a few years ago.

    Bruce Allen
    www.boacinema.com
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