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  1. #1 Grain and noise in stills 
    Hi Everyone,

    I'm relatively new to the RED platform. I recently purchased a RED to shoot still and motion campaigns for internal clients who require both and are on a tight budget. I've shot two of these so far and have been very happy with the motion but less so with the stills. I'm getting grainy images that are also a bit noisy when zoomed in to 100%. I'm convinced it's something I'm doing in post but have yet to solve the problem. I usually shoot stills on a 5D MKIII and I'm used to seeing sharp, crisp images when zoomed in to 100%. This is important because I am shooting these wider frames with the intention of allowing the client to crop as needed for print ads and such.

    I'm treating stills and motion separately. Shooting takes for each with setting that are appropriate for each medium (at least I think they are). I'd really appreciate any advice on best practices for this kind of shoot and how to solve this particular issue. I've got another one coming up in a few weeks.

    Gear and settings for still takes:

    RED Weapon Helium
    Fujinon Premier 18 -85mm @ F4
    12fps, 1/400 second, 1280 ISO, 3:1 compression
    REDcolor4/REDgamma4


    Link to TIFF:
    https://ferguson.box.com/s/xc0t8yir6...ud6yq9venhnok9
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Shaeden Gallegos's Avatar
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    Hey Joshua,

    I would mess a little bit with the 'Sharpness, Denoise, and Detail' sliders in REDCINE-X PRO under the "Look : Image" dropdown/tab. What you are used to with your 5D MKIII, is probably internal sharpening and maybe some de-noising. RED doesn't apply any of these post effects to the R3D clip, so it would be best to mess with some of these settings. Great shot by the way! I would also wait for some answers from people who are more knowledgeable than me in this area ;) Hope you find an answer!
    You don't have to see something to believe in it, but you have to believe in something to see it.
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  3.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #3  
    Yes, that's basically it. On the RED there's no NR or sharpening by default. Also, try the IPP2 Beta of REDCine-X which utilizes a new demosaic that extracts more details from the image. Try the DEB setting on the demosaic which will remove the chroma noise that's distracting you, and you can add some USM sharpening too. Or just stick a TIFF out into Lightroom or whatever and do a tiny bit of chroma NR and some sharpening and you'll be happy with the end result.

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 8k Digital Cinema Camera
    Science enables stories. Stories drive science
    IPP2, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Brendan H. Banks's Avatar
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    I'd put in the STH OLPF and drop your ISO to around 500/640 if you can. I think you'll see a really awesome change there. You won't really lose much in your highlights that way and you'll end up with a far cleaner image.
    Brendan H. Banks
    DP
    Epic-W Helium #796
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  5. #5  
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    Why would the STH OLPF decrease noise? Or is it just the lower iso? Is the ISO for finest grain a different value than the ISO for maximum dynamic range (in general - of course depending on highlight protection)
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Finegan View Post
    Why would the STH OLPF decrease noise? Or is it just the lower iso? Is the ISO for finest grain a different value than the ISO for maximum dynamic range (in general - of course depending on highlight protection)
    Shooting lower ISO gets you a cleaner image, but also less DR in highlights. Skintone OLPF helps with that.
    Nick Morrison
    Founder, Director & Lead Creative
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    smallgiant.tv
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Curtis boggs's Avatar
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    Josh,

    Small world, I'm a friend of Dave Haycox.
    I'm in virginia beach and have an Epic-w helium.

    Dave is a great guy, he just covered for me
    on a TV show deal i have.

    Your still looks great. great lighting and sharp.
    I have found the Helium to be cleaner then
    The Scarlet-X i had by a large margin.

    We should do lunch at Rudee's and geek out
    over Red cameras.

    Curtis
    ---------------------------
    Curtis Boggs
    www.cboggs.com

    Cinematographer-DP-Colorist
    Epic-W 8k - G&E
    Sigma Cinema prime set
    Leica-R Cine mod prime set
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  8. #8  
    Nick,

    I just got back from shooting another one of these still/video jobs with the RED. I ordered a much larger lighting package and was able to get the ISO down. I'll post results as soon as I can for all to see. Would love to get the communities feedback.

    Cheers,
    Josh
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  9. #9  
    Karim,

    That's the issue, I'm not getting great results using the NR built into REDCINE-X. I downloaded the new IPP2 and the results are a magnitude better. I still feel like I'm missing something though. I guess the fact that this platform and workflow are new to me...I can't help but feel that I haven't unlocked all of the cameras potential just yet. I just got back from shooting another one of these campaigns and I managed to get the ISO down (by half). Haven't processed the images yet but what I say on set looked very clean. Catching up on things this week but at the first opportunity I'll post some stills.

    Thanks,
    Josh
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  10. #10  
    Thanks everyone for the feedback.


    Shaeden,

    Thanks for the compliment. I'll try what you suggest.

    Graeme,

    I tried downloading the Mac version of the REDCine-X Beta with IPP2 from red.com without success. I think the link is broken. In general, that's exactly what I did with this file. Exported out of REDCine X and brought the TIFF into Lightroom. Added a little noise reduction in both chroma and luma, added some sharpness, etc. This made the problem worse. Started to look like a Seurat painting when zoomed in. I'm thinking adding sharpness and NR to the RAW file will give better results.

    Brendan,

    I used the skin tone OLPF. I'll try the standard on the next shoot and order bigger lights to get the ISO down.
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