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  1. #51  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thai Christen View Post
    It looks like you have been with medium format for quite a while too :-)

    Another thing worth mentioning is that Leaf was the first company launching a touch screen UI interface into their Leaf Aptus digital back series. And for those using the old Hasselbald V system, Leaf Aptus series were the only digital backs that allow you to mount horizontal or vertical. That means when you switch from shooting horizontal to vertical, you just unplug the back from camera body, rotate it 90 degree and then plug it back to camera body. This is awesome. With other backs, you have to flip camera body and lens 90 degree, which looks awkward for Hasselblad V. Not even Hasselbald were able to implement this feature into their digital back for the V system.
    Yes long time I guess you could say right from the beginning... The original Leaf "Brick" and solid sate cooling created an extra problem of condensation forming on the sensor's surface/glass window but dynamic range was good :-) . If I remember rightly the photo sites were 15 micron apart (but may have been 9 micron in actual size) 2048 x 2048... Three wratten R,G,B gel filters on a synchronized filer wheel... LOL I/we had to build a lot of crazy equipment and mechanical positioning systems and track-ways for imaging in the field to mosaic very precisely 125 shots into one single very precise image for historic site recording conservation work. I still maintain each individual shot was the best 4 million pixels on the planet if you could align the three color separated channels properly LOL. The things we gripe about today! You young'ens don't know how lucky you have it... ;-)

    Totally agree with the rotational design features of the Leaf Aptus and the use of a flat ribbon cable for that, quite brave and still maintain decent bandwidth and response times.

    Maybe I'll dig up some old slides of that field project as it was pretty insane what we had to build, (as I can't find imagery on the web of the Leaf Digital Camera back on a Hasselblad ) almost pre-dates the "Inter-web".

    At the time everyone thought I was insane for not shooting film, but there were technical and physical constraints that made the mosaicking of all these shots practical as we were in tight spaces but over a large area where long shots would not be possible and also the project was to see whether "in field digital capture" could be accomplished to yield practical results and be of sufficient quality... So we had to have workstations (Apple Quadras) in the field and huge CRTs etc. and magneto optical drives so we could verify real time adequate and complete recording and capture as well as experimenting with diagrammatic overlays (in photoshop 2.0??? ) digitally for restoration work... It was a good proof of concept... to validate real time in field digital workflows and processes in challenging environments. The equipment seemed to eat plenty of dust and grime no problem.

    Now I build high precision 3d + VR "reality capture systems" and associated software + HW that pretty much do the same thing but in full three dimensions (absolutely life like, not computery looking at all and very high res over large areas in 3d). Hope to roll out systems that other folks (other than ourselves) can run with before the of end of time; but the HYDROGEN platform is a great accelerator for advanced techniques (looking forward to that) and I think we have some goodies that can make that platform shine/be pretty awesome too (in any case HYDROGEN will be a really useful day to day device for us and others we sell to/provide services for). And we have made sure the mechanical elements we have are RED DSMC II compatible (of course!) :-) .



    Cool to know there's some other long time Medium Format digital shooters here on RED too..!

    Cheers

    Eric.
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member Eric Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    2:1 compression has no effect on the image. At that point the compression is lossless. Two weeks back I did a resolution stress-test and there was negligible effect on resolution at 8:1 R3D compression on Helium, manifesting more as a slight change in chroma noise on highly saturated colours than any measurable loss of resolution.

    OLPF is the major factor, along with "technique" (as in achieving critical focus and making sure there's no unwanted camera motion, and sharpening with raw development).

    All sampled systems should really have a low pass filter (be it in the realm of audio or video or otherwise) as aliasing artifacts can be quite ugly. For stills shooting, people have been relaxing / removing OLPF to achieve more sharpness (some video people remove them because they're expensive) and for stills people, they may think that's reasonable if they're only shooting really shallow DOF or natural subjects without hard edges. The reason we don't relax the OLPF is because it plays havoc with broadcast compression (aliases are added false detail and move in the opposite direction to real motion), and while aliases can be hand-fixable in PhotoShop on the odd still where they may occur, that's not doable for motion video.

    Graeme
    I's second that, Graeme Nattress writes: " Making sure there's no unwanted camera motion "...

    Any vibration or rotational vibration and associated motion really is "Death" to technical photography... We tend to use much heavier and over designed fixtures and "mechanical positioning systems" just for that reason.

    Even when I was student operating a very rigid photographic (film) copy stand on the 4th floor of a very sturdy building next to train tracks (outside) we would have to time our exposures and shots around trains not being there, as the vibrations would be sufficient to soften / un-sharpen some of our work especially with slide/diapositives.

    I definitely agree with some of the sentiments about some cameras DSLR types over sharpening in-camera and also the possibility of chronic aliasing artifacts being much more noticeable on "Moving" sequences and then scrunched to broadcast formats... Even in the early days of HDTV / digital chronic aliasing artifacts like zig-zagging on near horizontal lines, like large steps of a buildings or monument (kind of thing) were very noticeable but "brushed under the carpet" by various industry "Big wigs" in the interests of "Progress"... Just literally looks like chunky pixles cascading over repeating horizontal lines... is kinda ugly / distracting .

    That's a good analogy (@Graeme) between audio, as that "Scrunched -up" sound-space almost creeps me out... feels "tinny" and claustrophobic / unreal... Same with imagery (sometimes)... Low pass filter for grown-ups ;-)

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  3. #53  
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    Well if I could get a Helium sensor without low pass filter coverlet I might be able to see that ;) Maybe you can help me get LOL
    And I am only talking about stills with perfect lighting and technique not motion. For first few frames of RED still capture the act of pushing the button does sometime introduce noticeable vibration on stills even when on a heavy tripod. But I mean when everything is perfect. Same everything including lens, but very different sensor sizes.

    When RED submitted unit for DXO test I thought I saw reference to single frame no compression special unit being used. If that is the case there must have been some advantage to go through all that trouble? Did that unit have low pass coverlet?

    And my comparison is not apples and apples even with low pass filter coverlet - Weapon VV at 2:1 compared to A7R2 full raw and med fmt like Leica SL007 and Hasselblad 6D100C would be better stills test.
    For motion there is no comparison at all - none of the medium format cameras can match helium.
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  4. #54  
    Senior Member Thai Christen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Finegan View Post
    For first few frames of RED still capture the act of pushing the button does sometime introduce noticeable vibration on stills even when on a heavy tripod.
    You are kidding, right? This cause much less vibration (if any??) than the slapping of the huge mirror of a Hasselblad V or PhaseOne/Mamiya 645DF
    You compare to A7R2 which is a mirrorless camera with 5-axis stabilisation within the body. Shooting on medium format or Helium stills mode handheld with manual focus on the other hand requires pristine technique to get the best and sharpest image. Even in good lighting. A7R2 is no comparison because it is much more forgiving to user error. My two cents.
    Last edited by Thai Christen; 08-09-2017 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Typo
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