Thread: Focus assist on DSMC2

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Hybrid View

  1. #1 Focus assist on DSMC2 
    Junior Member Mar van de Sande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Middelbeers / Netherlands
    Posts
    19
    Hello REDuser users :)

    i have a bit of a problem with the current focus checker. i work a lot in dark environments where i need to handle quick and with the current focus checker i can't really see if i'm in focus or not.
    is it possible for the next update to include a focus assist with a red or other color that shows the in focus objects?
    RED EPIC-W #005458
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member Marcus Friedlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,120
    Have you tried using Edge focus?
    Cheers,

    Marcus Ian Friedlander





    RED EPIC DRAGON #03179 "Squillium the Dragon"


    "Perfection is the goal, excellence is the standard."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Junior Member Mar van de Sande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Middelbeers / Netherlands
    Posts
    19
    Yes i did but when filming in low light it is not very useful unfortunately
    RED EPIC-W #005458
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member Fabricio Morato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Florianópolis, SC - Brazil
    Posts
    312
    Edge focus in low light doesn't work that well. Especially is you lose focus, it can get totally dark. For now, I would suggest getting an external monitor with this feature. The color focus assist has been requested for a while now and no one said if its in the works or not.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabricio Morato View Post
    Edge focus in low light doesn't work that well. Especially is you lose focus, it can get totally dark. For now, I would suggest getting an external monitor with this feature. The color focus assist has been requested for a while now and no one said if its in the works or not.
    Yeah, it's pretty disappointing that we are forced to use an external monitor for such a basic feature that is found in $99 monitors, but not a $2500 RED monitor.
    This issue has been brought up so many times over the years here and RED has never commented on why they they don't add it in. Maybe we need to get in touch with Trammel at magic lantern to make it happen hahahah
    www.DistinctVisuals.com
    Gemini #544
    Raven #1542

    2017 Cinematography Reel
    REDucated - 2016
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    London, UK.
    Posts
    1,553
    It might be possible for a module connected on the back of the Brain to perform (a different implementation of) edge detection.
    Sending a low resolution video signal over wireless 802.11g would be to too laggy and too low res..

    Canon : I think their engineers had been iterating their their DryOs to get face & edge detection to work with a lower CPU overhead (with 'acceptable' lag).

    ML : To get super high frame rate edge detection, I think someone hand-coded and hand-optimsed a thousand line routine in pure assembler, and then stored the code directly in the ARM instruction cache.... Not something that would be ideal in a RED code base that changes frequently.

    http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/2.0.4_AJ

    AJ
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony Newman View Post
    ML : To get super high frame rate edge detection, I think someone hand-coded and hand-optimsed a thousand line routine in pure assembler, and then stored the code directly in the ARM instruction cache.... Not something that would be ideal in a RED code base that changes frequently.
    AJ
    Can you elaborate on how frame rate effect edge detection? And I wouldn't necessarily consider 300fps super high frame rates either, thats pretty tame considering there are A trillion FPS cameras :) lol.
    Perhaps I am missing something but with the computing power of RED's, I find it very hard to believe that colored focus assist isn't possible because it's a technological road block, when my $99 cinemartin monitor has it at any frame rate.
    If i am not mistaken, the RED One had it when it first launched. Then it disappeared once the new bodies came out.
    www.DistinctVisuals.com
    Gemini #544
    Raven #1542

    2017 Cinematography Reel
    REDucated - 2016
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    London, UK.
    Posts
    1,553
    Cameron,

    +) The more complex the edge detection -> the more calculations per processed pixel.
    -> As simple edge detection may involve checking the Greyscale (luma) value of a pixel with each of the surrounding 8 pixels
    -> More advanced algorithms can attempt to dynamically adjust this in 'low contrast' areas (but with a higher CPU cost)

    +) The higher the frame rate (of displayed edge detection image) -> the proportionally greater the number of pixels processed

    Arbitrary Example (with approximate maths)

    If 8 maths operations were required per pixel, on a 32 Megapixel image at 4 fps
    32 Million x 8 SUBTRACT operations = 32,000,000 x 8 x 4 fps = 1 Billion Operations a second (1 Ghz of Maths operations)

    If this was done in a CPU, it would already consume a lot of power.
    It would also create considerable memory contention (with other critical processes).
    With hardware assistance, this could be reduce, but other compromises make be used to reduce the overal burden on the system.

    I can't offer insight as to what RED have decided is a priority for real-time processing, but do note that edge detection can eat into a systems resources (especially if adaptive contrast detection are desired).

    AJ
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member Curtis boggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    591
    interesting technical discussions but it still doesn't explain why my $99 monitor from eBay has focus peaking and my $30,000 red camera does not

    I think one of the issues is these cameras are now being used in ways that we didn't think they would like running gun and documentary
    ---------------------------
    Curtis Boggs
    www.cboggs.com

    Cinematographer-DP-Colorist
    Epic-W 8k - G&E
    Sigma Cinema prime set
    Leica-R Cine mod prime set
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by Antony Newman View Post
    Cameron,

    +) The more complex the edge detection -> the more calculations per processed pixel.
    -> As simple edge detection may involve checking the Greyscale (luma) value of a pixel with each of the surrounding 8 pixels
    -> More advanced algorithms can attempt to dynamically adjust this in 'low contrast' areas (but with a higher CPU cost)

    +) The higher the frame rate (of displayed edge detection image) -> the proportionally greater the number of pixels processed

    Arbitrary Example (with approximate maths)

    If 8 maths operations were required per pixel, on a 32 Megapixel image at 4 fps
    32 Million x 8 SUBTRACT operations = 32,000,000 x 8 x 4 fps = 1 Billion Operations a second (1 Ghz of Maths operations)

    If this was done in a CPU, it would already consume a lot of power.
    It would also create considerable memory contention (with other critical processes).
    With hardware assistance, this could be reduce, but other compromises make be used to reduce the overal burden on the system.

    I can't offer insight as to what RED have decided is a priority for real-time processing, but do note that edge detection can eat into a systems resources (especially if adaptive contrast detection are desired).

    AJ
    That sounds really impressive and technical. What it sounds like is we should all be giving Cinemartin a round of applause for accomplishing something at a $99 price point when RED is unable to do it at any price point.

    While the camera may be recording higher frame rates, the action is still happening in real time and the monitoring is still happening in real time.
    Sorry AJ, I just don't buy it that a $30,000 cinema camera doesn't have the technological ability to do colored focus peaking when it already has that silly over-sharpening feature. Just make it a color, done.
    www.DistinctVisuals.com
    Gemini #544
    Raven #1542

    2017 Cinematography Reel
    REDucated - 2016
    Reply With Quote  
     

Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts