Thread: TEST/REVIEW - Motion Mount on Helium

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  1. #1 TEST/REVIEW - Motion Mount on Helium 
    Member Christoph Tilley's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
    Vienna, Austria
    Hey guys,

    I tested our RED Motion Mount this weekend on our Weapon Helium for color cast and other things:

    Here is the nerdy spreadsheet I show in the video:

    Lens was Zeiss Otus 55mm w/ Nikon mount and a Novoflex EF adapter.
    What do you think of the Motion Mount? Would you recommend it?

    Have a nice weekend!
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Antony Newman's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
    London, UK.
    Very insightful.

    Thankyou Christoph.

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  3. #3  
    RED TEAM Stacey Spears's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    Sammamish, WA
    Nicely done. Would be interesting to see someone run the same test on Dragon. I recall the ND being fairly neutral at one point in time. I miss having a motion mount just for the ND.
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  4. #4  
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    Dec 2013
    Pretty sure the Motion Mount isn't working as intended on Helium sensors, which is quite unfortunate. The color shift shouldn't be this bad.
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  5. #5  
    It was a while back I used it . But I think the whole idea with the motion mount is the sinewave shutter. The "global" square shutter is not much better than the rolling shutter that is in use when not having the motion mount. And I think the square option in the settings are more to let in more light than the sinewave option can do.

    My guess is that the helium color science work is still in progress and the motion mount depending parameters are possibly not in priority at this early stage.

    So how is it preorming without ND and in sinewave mode. As thats really what it´s built for / to create a sinewave typ motion blur. Hench the name motion mount instead of ND mount I guess.
    Björn Benckert
    Creative Lead & Founder Syndicate Entertainment AB
    Flame - 3D - Milo MoCo
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  6. #6  
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    Nov 2011
    Pretty interesting. One thing to note with the motion mount is that when changing the ND value you have to wait a second or so for the camera to adjust/compensate the colour shift and it won't do that if you change the value while rolling, for example. That said I haven't used mine on a helium sensor as of yet.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Anton Shavlik's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    The motion ghosting happens because the sensor cannot read fast enough at 8k for the motion mount's global shutter to work. If anyone's curious why I can draw a picture explaining why that is, but ultimately the helium sensor is at fault, not the motion mount.

    I found that 8kWS with 1/50th second shutter does draw a global frame with the square shutter at 24fps, so that height in pixels should be around the threshold for normal cinema settings. I wonder if this is how they shot The Underdog since the motion was so nice.

    One other artifact that can occur with the square shutter, extreme highlights that are well beyond clipping will also ghost, and there's nothing you can really do to stop this artifact. This is because the sensor is running opengate, 360 degree shutter behind the motion mount, which acts as the shutter by rapidly turning opaque and clear. It's opaqueness is around 9 stops of ND, not a full opaqueness like a metal mirror shutter. Anything that can get a signal through 9 stops of ND will have 360 degree shutter motion blur, while the rest of your image has 180 or whatever you set it to. This is only really a problem with bright bulbs in a black room, that sort of thing, where the motion blur of the bright object 9 stops down is enough to register against the otherwise captured image.

    The sine wave mode, "soft shutter", seems to demand even more from the sensor and I think I found it working at around 4kFF 1/60th at 24fps. But the motion artifacts will always only draw at the bottom of your frame and the sine wave artifacts benefit from the sine wave shutter, making them softer.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member
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    Dec 2006
    Vancouver, BC
    I'd also mention that the mount is essentially a polarizer. Screens can look strange, or sometimes black with the mount. I love the motion mount, but I think this review nailed it's shortcomings.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Russ Fill's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
    World wide working
    Supper great review and explanation of the Motion Mount. Its the kind of explanation that will help a lot quickly understand how to get the most out the their Motion Mount. And what things to avoid or be aware of.
    One thing that I feel is sometimes over looked is the ability to ND lenses that have almost no way to filter using the MM. These are lenses that would otherwise not be able to be filtered or would need a complete set just for that lens.
    Supper wide lenses and speciality lenses.. And I have to say that to have the MM on when Im using a Telephoto lens like say a 400mm prime it is invaluable for a quick ND change.
    Hopefully some of the concerns can be remedied over time.

    Thank you Christoph
    Epic Forged Monstro (Camera 101)
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  10. #10  
    Junior Member Carlito Herdenberg's Avatar
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    May 2015
    Malmö, Sweden
    Great review! I've really been looking for a video to show how the bokeh can look. Thats really bad! Tiffen VND it is.
    Carl Herdenberg

    Wildlife/documentary filmmaker with a past in VFX.
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