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  1. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Pruitt View Post
    They can be saved, but only if we use the laws of economics to do so. Human activity is the problem, and humans are economic beings.

    As a university economist, this is something I've been preaching for over 30 years now.

    Since I believe there is no way such rational policies will ever be accepted by "environmentalists" (don't get me started!), I hold no hope for the future of elephants, rhinos, or any other of God's amazing species.

    Stephen
    Having filmed in Africa for the past 15 years, made over 30 conservation themed TV shows, and even wrote a draft of the Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie script "Africa" based on Richard Leakey's Wildlife Wars before Skydance got involved -- this is a bit of a personal topic.

    I think the root is a little deeper then that, humans conquer and posses not out of need but out of desire. Take a look at all the useless crap we own. Some people are worse then others. Humans have carved up the world and it's resources for their sole benefit and use to the exclusion of all species. I've heard the economic theories, if it pays it stays. Have looked at the benefits and draw backs of sport hunting, and understand pretty well the benefits and drawbacks to tourism (in a place like Africa) and my personal opinion is the economic model is what's wrong with us. Until we want it to exist for the shear beauty and wonderment nature as we know it is doomed. Simple economics explains it. There are too many of us, utilizing too much space, and too many resources. Until you hear a plan that includes population control and consumption being the root of the problem there is no point to discuss further.

    There is no recovery, with more elephants gone, people will claim the habitat for their use, and we've lowered the bar on what is possible.

    A conservationist rather then an environmentalist is someone who understands this. Despite the odds they keep fighting for their patch of land, or to keep their species a little longer in the hope that one day humans will get their act together, or die off so the remaining animals can repopulate the places that were once theirs.
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  2. #42  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Agreed, the longer we skirt around the issue of over population, of the human species, then we're basically never going to come to any mutually rewarding solution balance wise for man or nature. Sad thing is we hold human life in such high regard that we do everything we possibly can to artificially extend it, save it and improve our longevity. I'm of the belief that we were only intended to have a specific lifespan which has evolved and become greatly amplified in the modern age given the advances in science and medical understanding of our physiological selves. There are just too many of us. Politically correct thinking simply forbids anyone to think of a solution, of which becomes more and more drastic as we proliferate, without being labelled subversive, evil or inhumane. What are the first steps taken when it's deemed there are too many Deer in a specific Forest, too many Seals on a specific coastline, too many Wolves in the mountains? Government ordained culls.

    And yet with the unabated and continued human population explosion, nothing is done to control it. What of the additional millions of people who will continue to survive when and if Malaria is beaten, Polio and any other form of disease that picks out the naturally weak or afflicted? Where will they live, what will the eat, what standard of life will they have? Simple existence isn't always a blessing for many.

    When an animal is sick the prognosis is made to 'humanely' put it out of it's misery. With humans more than often we are programmed to prolong the suffering by keeping the individual alive. What quality of life does a person in a vegetative state have who is being kept clinically alive so that their family can cling to some kind of hope that the afflicted will miraculously one day regress to become the person they once were?

    The sooner we can disconnect from the steadfast belief in the absolute sanctity of human life the better.
    Last edited by Marc Thorpe; 09-06-2016 at 05:02 PM.
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  3. #43  
    As I pointed out above, mankind will be exterminated by intelligent machines in 1,000 years or less. Those 'lower' lifeforms still alive will be allowed to co-exist with the intelligent machines.
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  4. #44  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Butterfield View Post
    As I pointed out above, mankind will be exterminated by intelligent machines in 1,000 years or less. Those 'lower' lifeforms still alive will be allowed to co-exist with the intelligent machines.
    You should make a film about that....
    S E A W I L D E A R T H

    "It's all Mother Nature's fault, she radicalised me at an early age"

    "Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed... We simply need that Wild country available to us, even if we do nothing more than drive to its edge, and peer in" -
    Wallace Stegner.

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  5. #45  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Henry Rollins, with his take on the situation...
    S E A W I L D E A R T H

    "It's all Mother Nature's fault, she radicalised me at an early age"

    "Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed... We simply need that Wild country available to us, even if we do nothing more than drive to its edge, and peer in" -
    Wallace Stegner.

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  6. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Butterfield View Post
    As I pointed out above, mankind will be exterminated by intelligent machines in 1,000 years or less. Those 'lower' lifeforms still alive will be allowed to co-exist with the intelligent machines.
    Skynet much?
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  7. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Thorpe View Post
    What quality of life does a person in a vegetative state have who is being kept clinically alive so that their family can cling to some kind of hope that the afflicted will miraculously one day regress to become the person they once were?

    The sooner we can disconnect from the steadfast belief in the absolute sanctity of human life the better.
    It's a toxic mix of hope, and charging a lot of money to keep that hope on the front burner.

    I live in a place where street dogs are plenty, and I see them hit by cars all the time. Some can be saved, others not. The majority of the folks here feel nothing at all. It just makes me so angry!!

    Toss a three-year-old human out there (some say about the equivelent in intelligence) and you will see panic in the streets.

    The elephants are doomed so long as humans are their caretakers. So much for bigger brains.





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  8. #48  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Intended to kill elephants this poisoned watering hole recently claimed numerous lives of Rangers charged with protecting the Elephants....
    S E A W I L D E A R T H

    "It's all Mother Nature's fault, she radicalised me at an early age"

    "Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed... We simply need that Wild country available to us, even if we do nothing more than drive to its edge, and peer in" -
    Wallace Stegner.

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  9. #49  
    Senior Member Ketch Rossi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Thorpe View Post
    Intended to kill elephants this poisoned watering hole recently claimed numerous lives of Rangers charged with protecting the Elephants....

    Sad news...

    But for crying out loud, never seen a more fucked up spam polluted site like that... How TF are you supposed to read thru all that garbage!!


    Any ways...

    The killing is not only of animal, but also of the actual Humans assigned to protect them, Poachers stop at NOTHING... :(
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  10. #50  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSi View Post
    Sad news...But for crying out loud, never seen a more fucked up spam polluted site like that... How TF are you supposed to read thru all that garbage!!
    Does everything need to be Red and shiny to be appreciated by Italians?
    S E A W I L D E A R T H

    "It's all Mother Nature's fault, she radicalised me at an early age"

    "Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed... We simply need that Wild country available to us, even if we do nothing more than drive to its edge, and peer in" -
    Wallace Stegner.

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