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  1. #31  
    Senior Member Elsie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Thorpe View Post
    I don't see that. Population growth amongst the impoverished communities whether on African plains, Indian Mountains or Javanese cities is down to two simple factors, boredom and the numbers game. I can't see it being tied to the successes of the country as a whole. Having lived in Indonesia for a number of years it's the main understanding that if one has enough kids maybe just one of them will grow into an entity with the ability, educational or entrepreneurial, to provide for the rest. That one of them will break free from the cycle of poverty of their family. Indonesia being one of the emerging tech hubs in Asia is controlled by the powerful few, none of whom are willing to allow benefits seep down to their perceived lowest rungs of society.

    I've visited some of the most impoverished regions of Indonesia during the filming of a shark and manta ray awareness film over the past few years. The conditions these families live under would make anyone shudder, it seems Indonesia prefers to keep it that way in order to reduce any potential for discord that unified groups and communities may instill. Keep the masses impoverished is to keep them silent, subservient and easily controlled.
    Interesting observation of a small sample size.

    in a likewise small sample size, I'm partially basing my observations on the Mexican American community here in the Southwestern U.S. who are having two children families as they progress financially. Some of the really poor still have larger families simply because they can get more freebies with more children.
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsie N View Post
    Some of the really poor still have larger families simply because they can get more freebies with more children.
    There it is right there. As a country advances technologically there will be less need for a labour force, giving more and more people the task of simply existing. With no salary as such, and way more time on their hands, the onus will be to enlarge the families in order to recuperate greater social benefits, in countries that have such a system in place that is. In areas without such social safety nets the perpetuity of the 'numbers game' for the reasons as mentioned I feel will simply grow exponentially.
    S E A W I L D E A R T H

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  3. #33  
    Senior Member Scot Yount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Thorpe View Post
    Too many gene pools missing deep ends...
    This. Actually....
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Thorpe View Post
    it's the main understanding that if one has enough kids maybe just one of them will grow into an entity with the ability, educational or entrepreneurial, to provide for the rest. That one of them will break free from the cycle of poverty of their family.
    I spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines, and it was the same approach. 5, even 7 kids and more. All working to get at least one a university education (which was not a guarantee to break the cycle). The parents would more or less sacrifice the education of the other children - putting them to work in any menial task they could do to help pay for one university tuition, books, etc. It's what worked for them, because like your example, the money and wealth was in the hands of a very few, and that is where it will stay. Keep the workers hungry, and they will always show up for work, and for any amount of pay.

    The idea of conservation is not even a crumb in most of their realities. Save the tigers? What about us?

    I think we will see a return to the feudal system - we're already half way there? - and when the 1% of the planet's big cheese own all the animals in the world, only then will they make it crime to kill them.

    Till then it's a money and numbers game, with the elephants 3, poachers 10.

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    Last edited by a whitmer; 09-05-2016 at 06:20 PM.
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  5. #35  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a whitmer View Post
    I think we will see a return to the feudal system - we're already half way there? - and when the 1% of the planet's big cheese own all the animals in the world, only then will they make it crime to kill them.
    Indeed. Without naming names there is an entity in Indonesian 'politics' who has massive sway within the social elite basically because he is one of the leading crime figures in the country. He own's half of Bali as well as huge tracts of lands throughout the country. One area in particular in SE Sumatra is a model area of conservation where no-one, poacher nor illegal logger, dare to tread through fear of retribution from the 'associates' of this guy. That and the fact that he relocates problem Tigers from throughout Sumatra and Java to this region, Tigers for example that got a taste for human (remains) after the disastrous New Years Day Tsunami that pounded the Aceh region a few years back. The forests in what is existentially his National Park are some of the most stunning in the whole of Indonesia, alas they cover a mere speck of their previous terrain.
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  6. #36  
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    we could make some protest hats for all these getting swallowed in the belly of the beast...
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  7. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Thorpe View Post
    Sad but true. Nothing is going to, or can, change the juggernaut of human population growth and the needs, and greeds, that stem from it.
    Nature has a few safety mechanisms.
    Milder one is disease. Tougher one is epidemic.

    Last resort is a reset button.
    Manifested through a cataclysm.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    Nature has a few safety mechanisms.
    Milder one is disease. Tougher one is epidemic.

    Last resort is a reset button.
    Manifested through a cataclysm.
    I guarantee someone will find a way to turn the safety mechanism into a lucrative black market business, and skim the cream for themselves.

    'Oh, look. People are dying! I can cash in on this! And will someone please get that F'n elephant out of here!


    There is no safety mechanism. If only two people survive, one will be an asshole.

    a



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  9. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by a whitmer View Post
    I guarantee someone will find a way to turn the safety mechanism into a lucrative black market business, and skim the cream for themselves.

    'Oh, look. People are dying! I can cash in on this!
    Already happened.

    No need for black market.

    http://www.pmlive.com/top_pharma_lis...&#.V87LTlBBvqA

    Though it went a bit further than that.



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  10. #40  
    Senior Member Marc Thorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a whitmer View Post
    There is no safety mechanism. If only two people survive, one will be an asshole.
    Very true.
    S E A W I L D E A R T H

    "It's all Mother Nature's fault, she radicalised me at an early age"

    "Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed... We simply need that Wild country available to us, even if we do nothing more than drive to its edge, and peer in" -
    Wallace Stegner.

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