Thread: Red one Mx or Ursa Mini 46k

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  1. #1  
    Hello,I am a DSLR user for some years now, I think is the moment to jump to a real camera.I would like to use it for small advertising production with small team. I loved the red one image ,and also the organic skin tones you get.

    On the other hand I like the Ursa Mini 46k and have a stuning dynamyc range, imageb quality and a easy workflow facilities, but I donno The blackmagic image has not never convinced me 100%

    It is like my brain sais to buy the Ursa but muy heart the red one

    Maybe you can open my leyes

    Thanks
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  2. #2  
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    Hey Samuel,

    Well I have been wrestling with the same thing. I think it really depends on what you will be using it for. If you want a run and gun stay far away from the red one. Equipped, it will weigh anywhere from 20-30 lbs and if you want a stable shot, you will need to get a Steadicam vest and arm that will support that weight. I just found one on ebay for around 1000. I decided on the older red one because its proven even with its cumbersome cons. Even with how old it is , stuff for it is really expensive as well. So though you might pay 3-4k for a decent package, dont expect to really start shooting until you spend 2-3+k more. Pl mount lenses, sliders, stedicam, and if you decide not to go with pl mount than you need nikon or m42 lenses and adapters. That all said, I do NOT regret my red one. Though it is intimidating at first, I believe it will make you want to step up your game but that is just how I feel about it.
    Some stuff is hard to find like nikon mounts,Canon Birger mounts* and if you want to buy the canon mount expect to pay over 1k and some people will want to rip you off on the price of a mx package but stay strong at around $3-4.5k depending on the package and you can have some more wiggle room for extras ssd module, cards, rigs, etc. but it is heavy and it is a BIG Metal Camera.
    If I were you, I would go to a camera shop that has one and ask to see one. Just so you could see how big and heavy it is. Add another 10 lbs to that for batteries, hard drives lens and I think that will help. My concluding thought is that my heart too told me r1mx and my mind told me bm4.6 or kinemini 4k or bm production but once I got my red one my mind had no regrets. My muscles sooner or later may, but I will leave that for a later forum.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    You can configure it to be a 15-18 lb camera but you have to be willing to compromise. You'll want
    - small lenses
    - carbon fiber rods
    - LCD (EVFs add substantial weight)
    - Battery belt plate (if you can get camera balanced without battery)
    - Screw-in filters (I recommend getting the Xume filter system)
    - Low profile shoulder pad
    - No follow focus (if you can pull from lenses)
    - SSDs (no hard drives)
    - Ergocine or similar handles

    As with any camera, balance is key to not getting worn out quickly. I filmed a championship boxing fight recently with the R1 and I got the balance of the camera wrong and I really paid for it with any shots where I was close to ring looking up. I missed shots I wanted to get because the rig was making it tough to get certain angles. I was longing for my BMPCC at times. :-)

    So, you'll have to play around, get a feel for how you can keep it light and balanced. With that camera, it's not super easy to do. So you have to test.
    Steve Sherrick
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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherrick View Post
    You can configure it to be a 15-18 lb camera but you have to be willing to compromise. You'll want
    - small lenses
    - carbon fiber rods
    - LCD (EVFs add substantial weight)
    - Battery belt plate (if you can get camera balanced without battery)
    - Screw-in filters (I recommend getting the Xume filter system)
    - Low profile shoulder pad
    - No follow focus (if you can pull from lenses)
    - SSDs (no hard drives)
    - Ergocine or similar handles

    As with any camera, balance is key to not getting worn out quickly. I filmed a championship boxing fight recently with the R1 and I got the balance of the camera wrong and I really paid for it with any shots where I was close to ring looking up. I missed shots I wanted to get because the rig was making it tough to get certain angles. I was longing for my BMPCC at times. :-)

    So, you'll have to play around, get a feel for how you can keep it light and balanced. With that camera, it's not super easy to do. So you have to test.
    I absolutely agree with all of what Steve wrote above.
    If boot time is an issue I would recommend adding one of these which saved me on many doc shoots.
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...p_adapter.html

    I've worked with kitted out F3, FS7, and C300 rigs and the difference in weight compared to a RED ONE is not
    as big as you would think. I also like that a RED ONE config can have a shape and ergonomics that are more streamlined than many of the rigs for the smaller cameras.
    I will say thought that battery life is considerably less on a RED ONE but that's the price of always filming high quality compressed raw.


    A RED ONE configured the way Steve outlined above is similar in weight to most ENG shoulder cam news setups.
    Reality show camera rigs can actually be heavier (with huge brick batteries, wireless transmitters, etc) and they shoot pretty long handheld takes.

    Another thing to consider is the data rate footprint of RECODE compared to the PRORES and CinemaDNG options on the BlackMagic.
    The storage and archive is a bit more manageable on a RED ONE (MX) particularly at 4K as you can be dealing with a file that is 4 times less in size.

    I have shot many RED ONE (MX) based shoots with minimal crew (1-3 people, no AC, doc style, run and gun, army of me) and yes it can sometimes be a challenge but it can definitely be done.

    I also like the audio on the RED ONE (MX) which is very good quality and allows for 4 distinct sources. I commonly use 3 wireless and a shotgun on the camera and have usually (knock on wood) not had issues when it came to the final mix.

    It's amazing that a 2007-2010 RED ONE (MX) can still compare well to the cameras of 2016.
    RED got a lot right on their first camera. If I had the dough (and the imminent need) I would buy one of these used RED ONE packages I see on eBay.

    Hope this helps give another perspective.

    Brian Timmons
    BRITIM/MEDIA
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  5. #5  
    Thanks you guys, I know the red ONE is heavy And also it get warm and warmer, and it is not the best gun and run camera at all, but the image...I Love it...

    Actually I have a Gini Rigs shoulder kit, it is ok, but also heavy, not carbón...

    I have seen some kits about 4000€

    Let's see

    But I would like GEt this some day 😃

    https://vimeo.com/107700325
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    R1 can't be considered a true run and gun camera because in order to be able to pick it up and start shooting right away you would need to accessorize it with hot swap battery plates to avoid 60+ second boot up time. On a set where you have a moment or two to boot up the camera, I don't find this very limiting. In a scenario where you absolutely must be able to be ready for filming within 10-15 seconds, and still be relatively lightweight, I fully admit the R1 is not ideal for that. So when choosing these cameras you have to factor that in based on what you will be filming. Also, I would highly recommend comparing the images from these two cameras to assess the issues of noise, dynamic range, color, gradeability, motion cadence/rolling shutter, IR filtering, sharpness, etc. I would not go based on opinions, age of camera technology, etc. Just do a side by side and choose based on what gives you the best image for you needs. Keep it simple.
    Steve Sherrick
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  7. #7  
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    I do highly recommend shooting with both beforehand. As it is a radically different experience between the two I've found myself (a gap which only get bigger once the new BMD OS rolls out).

    For some people the errr ahh "limitations" of the R1 can be easily enough worked around and isn't a problem at all, for others they can be serious dealbreakers.

    Do also check out the other major competitors in that general price bracket: Scarlet MX, Raven, Sony FS7, Sony FS5, Sony FS700 (with raw the FS700 can be quite attractive, & is dirt dirt cheap), Sony F35, Sony F3 (I picked up mine for just US$1.2K! Yet can do 444), C300, KineFinity KineMax 6K, KineMINI 4K, Terra 5K / 6K.

    We're spoiled with a huge wealth of options now in the low to mid range!! :-)
    Last edited by David Peterson; 08-19-2016 at 09:36 PM.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    So are Scarlet MX kits close to that price level? If they are, consider that?
    Good production values may not be noticed. Bad production values will be.
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  9. #9  
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    You'll of course pay more for a Scarlet MX kit, but if you hunt hard the price gap isn't that bad for what you'd gain.

    I know having shot a feature with a R1 MX that I'd never personally buy one for myself unless it was a dirt dirt cheap crazy bargain (sub $2K) as then it is impossible to turn down.

    As I think out of all the RED cameras that the Scarlet MX is the minimum I'd settle for. (But then the cost is so high vs a Sony FS5 or Terra 5K)
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  10. #10  
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    I have a scarlet mx and use the ursa 4.6 a decent amount, realistically if I had to choose between a R1 (which has a great image) and the 4.6k, it's the ursa all day. It's just a better camera in almost every on set practical way( if you get a good one that is). It's way lighter, the tech is way more modern, it's pretty much ready to shoot right outta the box, the image quality is great as well as the DR, in camera prores or raw recording, ect... I'd take a scarlet MX over the 4.6 though since I get hired out way more with my scarlet then with the ursa, that's something you may want to take into consideration.

    The new firmware on the ursa is pretty cool and very user friendly btw.
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