Thread: Cook Anamorphic Lenses & Red S8K Helium Camera

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  1. #61  
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    Thanks Scott, I just saw an article called; “Sony and Panasonic target 8K TVs for 2020 Olympics” Interesting?

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/26/12...sony-panasonic

    The industry is getting comfortable with 4K Television and Movie Screening in Theaters, and the Japanese are taking about 8K Television for the 2020 Olympics, that’s only 4 years away, and they would have to start to implement it in two years in order to have full market penetration. Think about that for a moment. The current price for a TV set is $160,000.00 way too high for any practical use.

    So to get the price down, they would have sell a lot of television set, that means market penetration with their TV sets, which means the availability of “Production in 8K”, there is just no away around that. Who can shoot in 8K today and in the future? The “Red Digital Cinema Company”! That’s who. “NHK meanwhile reportedly wants to start full-scale broadcasting of 8K TV in 2018.” NHK is lucky to have the one Company they NEVER mentioned working on a RED CODE RAW to make it the best Movie and Television tool they can make. How about the 100,000 (I really don’t know) or so Movie Screens around the World, is Deja-vu all over again!

    Humberto Rivera
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  2. #62  
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    Here is another article related to the above; “Lost market share prompts Sony-Panasonic TV tech alliance”.

    http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Comp...-tech-alliance

    From the article that appeared in the NIKKEN ASIAN REVIEW on August 26, 2016; “Such 8K video boasts four times the resolution of 4K -- now considered the highest resolution on the market -- allowing for realistic graphics even on large screens. Japan plans to begin full-scale 8K broadcasting as early as 2018, getting a jump on the rest of the world. But this will require advanced technology that is difficult to develop. Panasonic and Sony will seek to bring other Japanese businesses on board, splitting the burden of development costs”.

    I guess it’s a matter of Japanese Pride, because in the USA a company called “Red Digital Cinema Company” who’s CEO, R&D, and others are hard press to find them in a “Full Dress Suites”, they have another way of thinking, and developing the lattes technology. I remember walking through the SMPTE and NAB Shows a long time ago with my wife and talking about that’s a humongous box that they have attached to the huge camera called the NHK 8K project.

    Today in 2016; of course there is no mention of the “Red 8K Helium Camera”, is like they never heard off-it; the “Red 8 S35 Helium”, but we know they have-it working in the field, with the likes of “Michael Bay”. It’s like the Red is the 900 Pound Gorilla in the room that thousands of people use, and no-one can do anything about, because of its U.S. Patent, while they were all caught sleep at the wheel. Recently in the Rio Olympics’ 2016 there was camera used by NHK completely covered with black tape, everything.

    If Red accepts my SUGGESTION for a Camera compatible with the “Cooke Anamorphic Prime /i Lens Technology” measuring 28.17 mm x 18.13 mm / 1.109” x 0.714”, with an Image Circle of ø 33.50, that is slightly larger than the “Cine Silent 35 mm Film Aperture” itself, but only configure with an 18 mm vertical, we would have a “Sweet Spot” with the “Red 8K Helium Camera” and the “Cooke Anamorphic” what a combination. That would fit into the 2020 Olympics date for the Japanese plans that actually go into effect on 2018 for broadcast not that far from now. It’s also good for everything else, whatever it-is!

    But beyond that all the “Professional Cinema Lenses” were granted a reprieve for today, they would have been put to good-use, with the current production in 2016. With its Cooke Anamorphic lens it will be 8K with a Virtual image of nearly 16K, I’m sure they are thinking of this in Japan, they just have to figure out “how to do it”, Red already has-it the-oven, and it’s just a matter of the Japanese “doing it”. My suggestion is make the “Cooke Anamorphic” and “Red 8K Helium Camera” to meet in the “Sweet Sot” of “28.17 mm x 18.13 mm” with a sensor size of “ø 33.50”.

    Wikipedia on NHK; “8K UHDTV (4320p) is 7680 pixels wide by 4320 pixels tall (33.18 megapixels), which is sixteen times as many pixels and four times the spatial resolution of current 1080p HDTV, which brings it closer to the detail level of 15/70 mm IMAX. [13][22][23] NHK advocates the 8K UHDTV format with 22.2 surround sound as Super Hi-Vision” End Wikipedia Quotation

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-...ion_television

    So, there is the NHK or UHDTV specifications, they are in the same “Ball Park” of the “Red Digital Cinema” specifications, it’s just a matter of a little Tweak one way or the other, that’s all. But it’s sheer size, that’s another question, the NHK Camera it’s a pretty big rig.

    I can help from noticing that everybody talks about the EQUIVALENCES to “IMAX 15 Perforations 65 mm Film Negative” but yes NHK is certainly in the “Ball Park” for that type of resolution along with the “Red 8K Helium Camera” in relatively small or maybe some would say tinny little package for Red, and a “Huge Package” for the NHK Camera.

    Now thinking beyond that, what we would compare the “Red Helium VV” too what? There is no comparison that existed before in the history of mankind for a “Red Helium VV”, we’re entering into uncharted territory with the “VV Helium Camera”. Food for thought! Where is the 8K Projector for theaters, I hope it’s not too far behind in coming to theatre near you; Will Theater Owners dig into their pockets and pay for 100,000+ 8K Projectors World Wide?

    Or would they be left behind for the slow but constant introduction into the marketplace of the 8K Television for Home Theaters? Lots of question remain for the Future of the Entertainment World Wide! What would the delivery system be for the Home? Via what; Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, or whatever? Will they be sold in an 8K Data Stick, for computers, Intelligent Phone, or Televisions? Can you imagine what a “Red S 35 Helium” full 24 fps shot with the “Cooke Anamorphic Prime /i Lens Technology” will look like, on an 8K 120” Television Screen? It’s the Future, we can’t tell, but we can make “Educated Guess” based on current knowledge.

    Humberto Rivera
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  3. #63  
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    “Jarred Land with Date Yoshikatsu at NHK Broadcasting Center. 9 hrs. (6:44 Central America Time)’ • Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan DOMO rules the 8k. #NHK #R3D”

    I woke up this morning to find this photo of “Date Yoshikatsu at “NHK Broadcasting Center” there might be something going on there, who knows, it makes perfect sense. We’ll have to stay tune.

    https://www.facebook.com/jarred.land?pnref=story
    https://www.facebook.com/jarred.land?pnref=story

    Humberto Rivera
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  4. #64  
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    From Facebook; https://www.facebook.com/jarred.land

    “Jarred Land with Shinji Yamaki and 2 others at 六本木ヒルズ 森タワー52階/Tokyo City View. 7 hrs (now is 6:15 am Central American Time) Minato-ku, Tokyo, Japan Thank you for an incredible afternoon “Kazuto Yamaki , CEO Sigma”. The passion you have for your company is inspiring and contagious.”

    “Thank you for an incredible afternoon Kazuto Yamaki , CEO Sigma. The passion you have for your company is inspiring and contagious. — with “Kazuto Yamaki”, “Shinji Yamaki” and “Takuma Wakamatsu” at 六本木ヒルズ 森タワー52階/Tokyo City View.”

    Something is cooking in Japan; what I don’t know!

    Humberto Rivera
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  5. #65  
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    It’s interesting how on this “Page Seven” of the “Cook Anamorphic Lenses & Red S8K Helium Camera” thread began with the Image of the “NHK 8K Project” being similar to the “Red S 35 Helium Camera” but that’s ALL, only the Image Size by resolution, from there on they parted sides; one is “Humongous Package” the NHK; and the other is a “Tinny Little Package” the “Red S 35 Helium”. But little did we know that Jarred Land had already booked his flight for Japan to talk to NHK, that’s interesting or coincidental some will say, its fate.

    Suddenly we fiend Jarred Land meeting with the Japanese; “Mr. Date Yoshikatsu” at NHK to talking about what? I don’t’ know but anything the “Red Digital Camera Company” dares to try-out, always has a good result for all “Red Users”, so we wait. As the character Mr. Spock would say; “It’s Logical”.

    In posts #61 and #62 we explored the “NHK Camera Rig”, and the “Red S 35 Helium Camera” with the proposal to slightly change the shape of the sensor in terms of RESOLUTION not “actual dimensions”, the “Cooke Anamorphic Prime /i Lens Technology” measuring 28.17 mm x 18.13 mm / 1.109” x 0.714”, with an Image Circle of ø 33.50, that is slightly larger than the “Cine Silent 35 mm Film Aperture”. How is that for timing, after all the years of research by NHK, and now in just the last few years we have a better solution though RED CODE RAW; How things change? There is always a new unexpected surprise around the next corner. Ikegami was rumored to be working on and 8K camera, but they don’t have RED CODE RAW, nor do they have a tiny little package.

    An observation; the ‎Angénieux Optimo Anamorphic lens is exactly the same as the “Cinema Projection Area” on a “35 mm Film Projection Frame”, Image Coverage is 27 mm Diagonal covering 21.95 mm x18.6 mm; while the Cooke is “Cooke Anamorphic Prime /I Lens Technology” measuring 28.17 mm x 18.13 mm, with an Image Circle of ø 33.50, that is much larger than the “Cine Silent 35 mm Film Aperture”. Anything that goes-up on the vertical can only be good for IMAX. Food for thought. 8K content is around the corner, or maybe 16K, that sounds crazy, but so did the Airplane sound crazy to someone in the 1800s.

    Humberto Rivera
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  6. #66  
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    It’s no an easy task to really create a 4K sensor, remember the first time that Red announced they were going to do-it, no one belief them, except for the few the brave souls that dare to put down a $1,000.00 deposit, everyone else belief they just could NOT do-it, some call-it a SCAM. It’s really hard to create a 4K or 8K or possibly a 16K camera, look at what happened to Canon with their new long awaited 4K EOS C700 / EOS C700 PL / EOS C700 GS PL, http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/up...-CanonC700.pdf

    It’s like all manufactures struggle to keep up with 4K but they are not quite there yet, and the ones that have-it; well they seem to inflate their capabilities for marketing reasons, not sure why that-is. Not with a “Red S35 Helium Camera” that can handle “16 bit 4:4:4 Raw Camera with 16+ Stops of Dynamic Range”. NHK have been working on their 8K Project for many, many years, and they may be ready for 2018 to broadcast the 2020 Olympics, by that time “Red should have” their 16K VV Camera! Meanwhile Red continues to advance by leaps and bounds, look at the “Red 8k Helium Camera” working all over the world, right-now.

    The only explanation is the RED CODE RAW, there is no away around that. So a small sample of “Red S 35 Helium Cameras” have been “sprinkled” around the world, many photos are starting to slowly come in. In one of the photographs below we see “Michael Bay’s” Helium Camera Shooting a “Victoria Secret” Shoot somewhere on the Planet Earth! Why is that? RED CODE RAW, that’s why, so Red continues to glide to a bigger and better Future, and the rest of the Big Names in cameras continue to struggle with RGB.

    Now let’s see if we can get an S35 8K Helium Camera with those extra 18 mm to the vertical, so we can use the “Cooke Anamorphic Prime /i Lens Technology” as they were meant to be used, and get some more vertical “real estate” for the IMAX image!

    Humberto Rivera
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  7. #67  
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    I saw this post in https://www.facebook.com/mark.toia?fref=ts this morning, the beauty of his range of subjects and Images, they are stunning, all done with the “Red S35 8K Helium Camera.

    Mark Toia; “Red Helium 8k Sensor is giving me such amazing colours tones... So rich, so sharp, so smooth... Seriously selling all my stills camera's. There is no need for them now in my little world.”

    “RED 8k Helium... has officially killed the DLSR for me. Resolution that kills most stills cameras. Skin tones are as perfect as I see with my own eyes. 36megapixel (8k) @75 frames per second, you never ever miss a shot. And best yet is you can enlarge any frame to AO Poster size, billboard or any printed media with ease. Like having a IMAX camera in the palm of my hand. Who would have thought”. End Mark Toia Quote.

    Humberto Rivera
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  8. #68  
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    Well Thales Angenieux has not been left behind in the “Vista Vision” camp, after all here are two lenses the EZ-2 FF 22 mm X 60 mm - EZ-1 FF 45 mm X 135 mm, both T3.0! “Well Done”!

    Thales Angenieux “Here are two new, convertible, compact zooms from Thales Angenieux. They cover both Super35 and Full Frame/VistaVision. Their small size and light weight seem to defy physics. (Aren’t Full Frame lenses supposed to be at least 1.5 to 2 times the size and weight of their S35 counterparts? Not these.) The price defies tradition. This is a new paradigm for Angenieux: an affordable zoom lens filling the gap between the DSLR and Cinema lenses for the growing corporate, documentary and owner-operator markets.” End Thales Angenieux

    http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/up...ngenieuxEZ.pdf

    Humberto Rivera
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  9. #69  
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    Please bear with me, this is my SUGGESTION for creating a SECOND and slightly different sensor size for the “Red S 35 Helium Camera”, just a little bit of thinking “out of the box”, but not much, so we can accommodate the “Cook Anamorphic /i Technology for the Prime and zoom Lenses”!

    The actual Sensor Size of the “Cook Anamorphic /i Technology Prime Lenses” is 28.17 mm x 18.13 mm; with an Image Circle of ø 33.50 mm, so let’s just say for the SAKE of an argument that we want to make a SECOND sensor size of 28 mm X 18 mm that will keep the sensor within the “Cook Anamorphic /i Technology” with an Image Size of ø 33.50 mm (or slightly under ø 33.50 mm) and still have the horizontal for other purposes, such as IMAX coverage. And let the Ks go wherever they go.

    That would be the ideal camera for all the rental houses around the World that own the Cooke Anamorphic Lenses, in addition to the other individuals that own the Cook Anamorphic or are about to buy a set, it would be a win, win situation for all. The current “Red 8K S 35 Helium Camera” Sensor is 29.9 mm X 15.77 mm, so 28 mm X 18 mm is not that far from what exist today, it just a matter of slightly adjusting the frame size for a SECOND “Red 8K S 35 Helium Camera” Sensor. We are not restricted by any actual “35 mm Film Size”, which belongs in the “History of Film”, now we can work with the “Professional Cinema Glass Available” in any format that makes sense.

    This would also mean that the use of the “Cook Anamorphic /i Technology Prime Lenses” would actually cover more than the 2x Image Area required within the Cooke Anamorphic Lens in the 8K Camera itself. That’s important because whatever the “falls-off-the-sides” is actually covered within the “Red 8K Helium Sensor Size”. So rather than the Camera covering 24 mm in the horizontal, is actually doing much better covering 28 mm on the horizontal, 4 mm more, a much better situation for everyone, a real Image Coverage rather than a virtual one, a definite gain in Image Quality.

    Not to mention the IMAX Camera. There have been so many announcement’s from other companies that they have an IMAX solution, but at the end of day is pure BS or maybe to put it politely “over-selling” of their product that does not go too far beyond 4K or so, not like the “Red 8K Helium Camera” new Sensor Size. More to the vertical is good for IMAX, and with the Cooke Look. Who said it had to be 8K exactly, I think there is a little bit of wiggle room, with a little bit of tweaking.

    Humberto Rivera
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  10. #70  
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    In looking forward to NAB 2017, I was thinking that any Company with “Professional Cine Glass” with a T Stop of around T1.4 up or down a little bit, could do the same as the Angenieux EZ lenses extenders--did, all with internal in house high quality glass extenders, so there would not be any Loss Image Quality, and the lenses extender would be specifically to each company’s look, for each lens.

    They can take a lens with an Image Circle of say ø 30 mm and expanded it to 47 mm Image Circle with an approximate 1.6 Tele Expander or less depending on the Image Circle of the lens to covered the Full Frame Vista Vision.

    If it’s done in house by the different Companies such as Cooke, Arriflex/Zeiss, Hawk, Leica and others, that would be a win, win situation when Red (speculation for NAB 2017) announces that is going to put a Helium Sensor on its Current Vista Vision Camera. This all conjecture for the future, which of course, it’s inedible. Numbers may vary according to “Professional Cine Glass”, but you get the Idea!

    http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/up...ngenieuxEZ.pdf
    https://www.angenieux.com/ez-1-ffvistavision/ Look at the Video on the Page, it was pleasure to watch, the exact precision of all-of-it!

    Angenieux; “Even if you swear never to shoot Full Frame Cine (never say never—it’s coming like a freight train) the FF rear group also acts as a 1.5x tele converter. So, the EZ-1 30-90mm T2 S35 lens becomes a 45-135mm T3 lens no matter which format you’re in. The EZ-2 15-40mm T2 S35 becomes a 22-60 T3.” End Angenieux Quote

    Imagine Cooke adapting the “Cook Anamorphic /i Technology” with an Image Size of ø 33.50 mm to an Image Size of ø 47 mm, the extension might not be as high as moving from a ø 30 mm Image Circle. That means two things; the increase in the Focal Length might not be as much; and the T Stop would not increase as much either, so the Light Loss might be better than the ø 30 mm Image Circle.

    It might mean that you would turn-in your lenses back to Cooke for the conversion, or get new set that can go one way, or maybe they would do what Angenieux did, and make it convertible, but the image gather with the “Actual and Virtual Image” would be spectacular. It might signal the actual arrival of the equivalence to the 15 Frame IMAX pull down, something that many companies say they do-right-now, but I can of doubt it.

    Meanwhile you use the “Cook Anamorphic /i Technology” with the “Red 8K S 35 Helium Camera” to its fullest, while Cooke thinks about it. It would be great for VFX backgrounds now used in many VFX Productions, including people talking in cars, extending effects to infinity in Motion Picture, and many other things.

    So the forces are gathering for NAB 2017 and beyond, we have just seen a preview, stay tune.

    Humberto Rivera
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