Thread: Cook Anamorphic Lenses & Red S8K Helium Camera

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    2:1 Ana on Helium and Dragon 6k makes no much sense (crop side & use shorter focal). Why not give us a smaller 7k sensor with 4:3 aspect?
    8k 1.90 is larger than s35 anyway. There would be all format options with enough res this way.

    Pat
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  2. #12  
    It is very simple.

    Most of RED owners/shooters don't use anamorphic glass. 16:9 sensor is more profitable.
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  3. #13  
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    David, I agree with everything you say; 100%, but I’m talking about the S35 Helium Sensor, bringing IN the sides and taking UP the image to a 4:3 “Aspect Ratio”. The change in the number of K is probably going to change a little bit, but not that much, to whatever it is, but is built around keeping the Image Circle around ø 33.50 mm or less.

    Here in the Cooke page are few samples of one Image at 6K with a Red Camera, and others three are at 4k with an Arri Camera, The images are at the bottom of the page after Anamorphic lens description, the 6K Red Image is the first one followed by the Arri images, and you can definitely see the difference. http://www.cookeoptics.com/l/anamorphiclens.html

    The “Silent Cine Aperture” is a rectangle measuring 4:3 or 24 mm X 18 mm, that would be slight “Less or More” than 8K using the new Technology of the “S35 Helium Sensor”, can you imagine what the picture would be like with quadrupled the “Image Size” at 1600 ISO or even 3200 ISO using the Cooke Anamorphic i/Technology Prime Lenses, I think it would be another picture totally different in the nighttime London scene. That’s the third one down out of the four under the section marked “Cooke Anamorphic /i Lens Footage” at he very bottom; http://www.cookeoptics.com/l/anamorphiclens.html

    Anyhow it’s just a request, I do hope it can be considered, that someone at Red is thinking “out of the box”, it would be the first time that the “Silent Cine Aperture” would be contemplated in a Digital Camera from the “get-go”. We could end this Arri vs. Red Digital Cameras with a new Technology with its new 3.65 micron sensor, the Helium Sensor. We can put all the Hi-End Glass to work again. I was reading somewhere that the; “Rio Olympics will be partially filmed in 8K "Super-Hi Vision.", whatever that means. http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...-sensor-camera

    There are many things high on the list of what it takes to make a good picture, however I would say right on top are the tools used, and in the list of tools are a Very good camera like the new technology offered by the S35 Helium Camera and the Cooke Anamorphic i/Technology Prime Lenses, the combination of the two make a winning package.

    Humberto Rivera
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    The “Four Elements” in the paintings created in the year 1569 on oil canvas by Joachim Beuckelaer are illustrate herein. Look at the foreground and look at the background, then look at the entire panting, that’s part of the “Cooke Look”; Water, Earth, Air, and Fire as defines by a person living in the 1500’s.

    Humberto Rivera
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  5. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    2:1 Ana on Helium and Dragon 6k makes no much sense (crop side & use shorter focal). Why not give us a smaller 7k sensor with 4:3 aspect?
    8k 1.90 is larger than s35 anyway. There would be all format options with enough res this way.

    Pat
    S35 is a physical size, 8K is a measure of horizontal pixels, and 1.90 : 1 is an aspect ratio, so it doesn't make sense to say that "8K 1.90 is larger than S35 anyway."

    Oh... I guess you are referring to the fact that the Helium sensor is larger than S35 (29.9mm wide instead of 24mm wide.)
    Last edited by David Mullen ASC; 07-26-2016 at 03:23 PM.
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  6. #16  
    You'd have to trim to more than 7K...

    I did some math... If the Helium sensor is 29.9 X 15.77mm and is 8192 X 4320, then to cut it the 4-perf 35mm anamorphic dimensions of 21 X 17.5mm, you'd end up at 5754 X 4795. Which actually reduces the total megapixel count from 35.4MP to 27.59 MP. Which actually doesn't sound like a bad idea, a 5.6K camera with a 1.20 : 1 sensor for anamorphic work. You could make it slightly wider to 24mm wide and get something closer to a 1.33 : 1 sensor, and a bit closer to 6K.

    Actually if you cut it to 1.33 : 1 / 24 X 18mm, it would be 6576 X 4944 / 32.5MP.
    Last edited by David Mullen ASC; 07-26-2016 at 03:42 PM.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post

    Actually if you cut it to 1.33 : 1 / 24 X 18mm, it would be 6576 X 4944 / 32.5MP.
    Perfect! Thanks for the maths David! Count me in! ;-)

    Enough resolution for Tier 1 in 4K DCI scope for x2 anamorphic and 4K DCI 1.89 Full container generated from spherical lenses.

    Pat
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  8. #18  
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    I’m not talking about doing something different that whatever Red HAD PLANNDED to do with their S35 Helium Sensor Camera! What I’m talking about is in addition to THAT, to “think out of the box” and think of cooking a few extra S35 Helium Sensors in a different batch for those customers that want something a close to the “Silent Cine Aperture” in a rectangle measuring 4:3 or 24 mm X 18 mm, that would be slight “Less or More” than 8K using the its new its new the Helium Sensor at 3.65 micron. Let me emphasize that I’m only asking for them to do-it, that’s all!

    OK David I see and agree what you mean, so here is my suggestion. I think the key is going up to be 18 mm in height or even 18.13 mm is you want to squeeze every single “mm or cm” out of the Vertical Measurement, which is what is translates to the edges as being too long on the sides, the horizontal can be whatever it need to be to make-it an S35 Helium sensor at 8K, 24 mm or more on the horizontal so we can get to 8K. Then we can led the sides go wherever they go with NO problem. So we can forget the “Silent Cine Aperture” and concentrate on a more “Red S35 Helium Sensor” solution! It may even help with the IMAX Placement within the frame at 8K using the “Cooke Anamorphic /i Lens”. Remember were working within an ø 33.50 mm Image Circle on the vertical, not the horizontal. Once you’re at 18 mm in height it doesn’t matter what happens with the sides that were you adjust it to 8K to fill the S8 35 Helium Sensor, I got-it!

    Aging thank you David Muller for your insight into this problem, it’s the height at 18 mm that’s the problem that can be solved! It will be less than 29.9 mm and less the 24 mm on the horizontal. That’s my suggestion, raise the vertical to 18 mm, and let the horizontal fall wherever it may! At the end it will be whatever it will be, and that’s that, there might not be a second height of 18 mm.

    Humberto Rivera
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  9. #19  
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    David Muller “Actually if you cut it to 1.33:1 / 24mm X 18mm, it would be 6576 X 4944 / 32.5MP.” David Muller

    So if we filled the sided the measurement of the sensor to be whatever it makes it come to come up to 35.4 MP, there would be no loss of resolution for other purposes. Is that what we’re talking about here?

    Humberto Rivera
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  10. #20  
    Depends on what you mean by loss of resolution "for other purposes"...

    Yes, you can get to 35.4MP by cutting the sensor in a different shape -- you could cut it to 26 x 18mm (1.45 : 1 shape) and it would be 7158 x 4944 pixels / 35.4MP.

    That would be the same total pixel count as the current Helium sensor which is 29.9 x 15.77mm / 8192 x 4320 / 35.4MP.

    However, there aren't a lot of projects shot with a 1.45 : 1 aspect ratio. You would have the horizontal loss from going from 8192 to 7158, and then the overall loss from whatever aspect ratio you used that was wider than 1.45 : 1. So you can't get the same resolution in practice. However, I don't think a limit of 7.2K horizontally is "bad", it's still an increase over 6K.

    Actually the Alexa sensor in Open Gate mode is close to that shape, around 1.50 : 1.
    Last edited by David Mullen ASC; 07-27-2016 at 05:42 PM.
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