Thread: Cook Anamorphic Lenses & Red S8K Helium Camera

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  1. #131  
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    Shoot 35 mm Film/Super 35 mm Film Format, or whatever with the new Cooke S7/i Prime lenses. Now with the “Red 8K 35 Helium Camera” or the “Red 8K Vista Vision Camera”. Then, you’re covered when camera sensors go to “full-frame” (don’t know what that really means) with Red, Vista Vision, IMAX, 3D, 2.00:1 Univisium, 2:39.1 DCI, 16:9 (1.77:1), 1.85:1, and beyond with Cooke's S7/i Full Frame Plus.

    So it goes without saying that what you need is way over 8K of “Marketing Resolution” for an “Actual Resolution” of 8K to occur, whatever that number-is. And there is such a number but not in the current Universe of easily available Cameras. One of these days Red will have such a number. However it’s important to NOTE that Red is currently at the top of the HEAP when it comes to resolution.

    https://vimeo.com/blog/post/aspect-ratios-explained Aspect Ratio is explained here for 35 mm Motion Picture Films & Television, the second video down has simple but complete explanation of where Motion Picture Film since it arrived as far as Aspect Ratio, which is now emulated by Digital Cinema, so it could be exploited on the “Big Screen Worldwide” or the latest “Television Sets”.

    Hopefully that will mean the “Digital Cinema” “Full Frame Helium Sensor” we can only hope, it will be called whatever it’s called. If-it does not happens at Cine Gear 2017 this summer, then we wait, but eventually it WILL happen, it just makes sense. Whenever it-is, you’re guess is as good as mine!

    Inside that Helium Sensor, is where you can put your “Aspect Ratio”. Whatever the size, you can bet one thing, it’s coming sooner or later that is one thing you can take to the bank, just don’t know when! Remember somewhere along the journey we changed from Film Formats to Digital Cinema, as they evolved to the long awaited “Full Frame Helium Camera Sensor”. So we wait for the Future to be announced.

    We have become accustom to talk in terms of 35 mm Film or 65 mm Film, that we sometime forget that with “Digital Systems” it can be anything a particular manufactures choses to make it, and call-it. Before Kodak was King, now everyone is Kodak in terms of Saying what the sensor size will be, and its resolution.

    That’s also why the Cooke S7/i Prime lenses, are beyond the 46.31 Aspect Ratio used by the “Red 8K Vista Vision Camera”. So everything moves “backwards and forward” from the SENSOR, and how that image is process, in Red’s case is an REDCODE R3D File, that’s since the time of the “Red One” and will continue till the end of time, and only Red can manufacture it! So it does-not matter how any manufacturer “Spins-it”, they are what they are! We don’t know what we don’t know, and there is no there, there, just that the REDCODE R3D Files do exist, and will continue to exist. RGB and Baked-in Original Files are a thing of the Past.

    Humberto Rivera
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  2. #132  
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    8 K Monitor

    https://www.dpreview.com/videos/3751...do-you-need-it The latest’s 8K Monitor from Dell, available for Editing, Gaming, and other things, for now the price might be too high if you include all the attachments that you need to have it “Turn Key” installed on your editing system. But like always as time advances, the price will drop, so it’s just a matter of time before it comes to desktop near you. Considered this a Preview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_PnCKK_Nhc

    Humberto Rivera
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  3. #133  
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    Just to take-up the two threads above. Thinking of “Aspect Ratio” as an airplane trying to land on a 35mm or 65 mm Film Field, but suddenly there are a lot of “Digital Film Construction” that has begun by different manufacturers, they are all over the place, suddenly lots of options opened-up, and are readily available to anyone. There are many camera manufactures doing 4K, 6K, and 8K Moving Images. Imagine you’re “Aspect Ratio” whatever that is; 2.39:1, 2:1, IMAX, 16:9, 1.85 - 8 Perforation Vista Vision, 65 mm 2.20 Todd-AO, Super Panavision 70 – 2.20 Aspect Ratio, or whatever flavor you like!

    That “Aspect Ratio” is of interest to “Theatrical Distributors” around the World, and consumer preference, mostly IMAX, 2.39:1, 3D or 2D, 1.85 suddenly a confusing monster it has been let out of the Cage for “Origination Raw Capture”! That Giant it’s totally independent of “Resolution”, it’s just an “Aspect Ratio” that has to go over a sensor with a particular Resolution. First it goes over the “Aleax 65” and it fiends a Resolution of 6K, so it drops down, and it becomes one of those resolutions according to your choice of “Aspect Ratio” within the table outline above. Then the various aspect ratios continue-on in formation and it flies over a “Red 8K Vista Vision Camera” and it also drops right down on the Sensor, and it becomes a “Larger Resolution”. Why? Because the Landing Zone is Larger in terms of “Marketing Resolution”, it’s 8K vs 6K, that’s fairly simple.

    Now imagine your “Aspect Ratio” is in search of a better, yet to be announced camera, say the “Red Full Frame Helium Camera” it drops down on the “New Full Sensor” and it becomes a “New Size” lager than 8K, let say for the sake of augment something, between 10K or 12K, so it drops down on the “New Resolution” with space to spare for things like; advertising “Marketing Resolution” vs “Actual Resolution”; the MTF of the lenses and whatever else is involved in reducing the Resolution to its “Actual Resolution” for a Number ABOVE 8K, whatever that number-is, it will be a “True Number” after it becomes “Actual Resolution”, and it will be ABOVE 8K at the very least. Remember Resolution, and Sensor Size don’t necessarily have to be working within the same size.

    You might want the extra space so you can accommodate for reducing “Camera Movement”, containing that movement within a certain window, or anything else that you might think-of. That will be when we arrived at an “8K Plus Sensor”, so it can play in any 8K and ABOVE Monitor. I understand why we use “Marketing Resolution”, it’s because there are so MANY thing that can influence the number that are beyond the control of ALL the manufacturers, and there are so many manufactures of different Resolutions. So “Aspect Ratio is only a shape, a canvas upon which you draw your story, a canvas does matter, how you draw-it makes all the difference” end quote; John P. Hess.
    https://vimeo.com/filmmakeriq/videos

    So we look forward to the new “Red Full Frame Helium Camera”, yet to be announced camera, whatever it’s called, with the new “Cooke S7/i Prime lenses”, they make up an extremely good combination, that’s just my opinion!

    Humberto Rivera
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  4. #134  
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    There are certain words that are thrown around by different manufactures all over the world, and they all mean different things to the public, such as; Raw Capture, Resolution “Marketing vs Actual”; Dynamic Range; Color Space, just to name a few. I remember reading about Vittorio Storaro, ASC, AIC choosing the Sony Camera because it had 8K Resolution when in fact it had 4K of “Marketing Resolution”, and there are other examples. Raw Capture, it seems like everyone has that in some form or odder, but Red has the REDCODE R3D Files, they hold the US Patent, and only Red can use-it and improve-it. Dynamic Range, the arguments go on forever on this topic, the charts and their interpretation, but we know that a very good argument always fall on the side of Red.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...-plans-1009997 Some News form Cine Gear 2017.

    From Sony in the Future https://www.redsharknews.com/product...-cinema-camera

    8K is still the Standard till the "Full Frame Helium Camera" https://www.redsharknews.com/product...for-filmmaking

    Humberto Rivera
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  5. #135  
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    So shooting on the 8K S35 Red Epic-W, what would be the best settings and resolution option for these Cooke Anamorphic lenses?
    Phil J W Moreton - Cinematographer - London
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  6. #136  
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    Phil, sorry for the delay, I’ve been busy for the last few days. The Cooke Anamorphics do cover the Red 8k S35 Camera to a certain extent, with an Image Circle of 33.54mm Diameter, the “Red 8K S35 Camera” has an image circle of 15.8 mm x 30.7 mm diagonal 34.5 mm, and the problem is on the height of the camera, which does not cover the full height of the lens. So the sides will exceed the 2:39.1 Wide Screen Aspect Ratio, however you could use the extra space to the sides for a 3D conversion is you so desire to-do-so. Here is a sample taken with a “Red 6K Dragon”. https://vimeo.com/159050428

    Humberto Rivera
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  7. #137  
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    I guess while we wait for other manufactures to show their NEW gear, Red patiently sits on the sideline working on the 8K plus Camera. I guess they’re waiting for them to expose their hand, like HI-STAKE Poker Game. Meanwhile they continue to work on the software to fine tune their picture, with Dynamic Range, and Resolution “Marketing & Actual”. It will be a woozy of an announcement that will become clear when it finally comes. That’s my Opinion.

    There was Canon, Panasonic, and Sony with just enough of an announcement to peek everyone’s interest till 2018, but nothing from Red. Cine Gear Expo 2017 is over and we wait till the time is right. But you can bet your boots that there is something there, something big. The 8K barrier will be broken by the “Red Digital Cinema Company” while all others lag behind.

    Humberto Rivera
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  8. #138  
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    Why do I say Red will break the 8K barrier soon? Well they have the means to-do-it! What do I mean by that? They have the “Red 8K Vista Vision Camera” as a working model for the size of a camera that it’s now in use. They have the “Red 8K S35 Helium Camera” as a working model for the resolution that’s in use, DSMC2 Technology, continue to improve its Color Science, MTF, its Dynamic Range, and it’s Marketing Resolution.

    It then stands to reason that the size of the “Red 8K PLUS Helium Camera” is ALREADY being worked ON in secret, they just need to expand the SENSOR SIZE for it to reach to the size of the “Red 8K VV”, and fill it up with a “Helium Sensor”! That’s sounds perfectly logical to me. And who know it might be a project at the “Red Skunk Works” (if there is such a thing) that we don’t know anything about.

    It’s all Logical! They just need to work out various problems to get to that point, of expanding the ”Helium Sensor Size” to its lateral limits, but what is to stop Red from doing that, NOTHING. They will announce it when they are good and ready. That’s my opinion for whatever it’s worth! Let’s not forget the glass, the Cooke S7/i with it’s greater than 46.31 Image Circle, its unique Cooke Look, and sharp properties. We’re just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Of course they are not going to acknowledged any of this, but that’s my logical reason for thinking this way!

    Graeme has a very good explanation for resolution at; http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...915-Resolution

    Humberto Rivera
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  9. #139  
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    I know it’s not good to mix threads from one to another, but I felt I had to do it here, because it goes to the argument of WHY a larger “Helium Sensor” in the “Red 8K VV Body”, there has to be a logic to it. We’re talking about the “Red 8K S35” being slightly better than the “Red 8K VV Camera” on a pixel by pixel basis, if that were to be the case, it cries out for a larger Helium Sensor Size, and the use of the Cooke S7/i Lenses for sharpens.

    At least to me! Of course we’re taking about predicting the FUTURE HERE, and that’s always very hard to-do, so the conversation for the moment remains theoretical. Too many things to work out, beforehand! But if anyone can do-it is the “Red Digital Cinema Company” for all the reasons mentioned in the threads above.

    We appear to be heading for a convergence of thought, Graeme being very educated on that matter, while I’m just a humble novice when it comes to all this technical but highly important things. My only concerned is what you can-do with the Cinematography to make a better “Motion Picture”. Where do put the frame to capture the best performance by an Actor, to capture that special MOMENT when everything is just RIGHT, how do-you go from one scene to another to create a compelling structure. One that keeps your interest without the nuances of “Filmic Distraction” to Plot or anything else that might occur in the minds of an audience, Pure Cinema!

    I remember when I was a student at USC Cinema (1970s), I took an interest in everything, Directing, Cinematography, Screenwriting, Producing, Sound, Make-up, and most important the “Art of Cinema”, or Filmmaking, or whatever you want to call-it, which is often hard to describe. It’s something you have to mix-it-up internally in your being, sent-it to your brain, to form a clear picture that only you can see, and then Direct-it to complex number of people, all with different occupations, so everyone can focus-it in singular point-of-view, so they can perform-it in complete synchronization to YOURE common goal, hard to do, but when you accomplish it, it worth all the “Tea in China’. You’re dealing with an intangible-construct, that you have to translate to tangible instructions, so all the assemble masses of production people and those to come in post-production can execute, before it becomes “Motion Picture”. It’s like well dance Tango, complex, beautiful, and completely satisfying.

    Graeme Nattress: “I'm not happy predicting in theory what is going to work best on the sensor side of things. There's too many variables and pixel design advances along with the electronics and processing. Unfortunately that means we'll have to wait on good empirical data before I can answer that! But my guess is that the size of the sensor is intimately tied to the lenses used with it, and that is a major influence on the image we see. Pixel density is going to interact with the lens MTF too, and that is partly why Helium sensors look so good. It's a very interesting question.” End Quote by Graeme Nattress

    I had to borrow this line from; http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...solution/page5

    Humberto Rivera
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  10. #140  
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    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...ement-July-6th
    “July 6th. 9am PST. Right here. You need to be online. You need to tell everyone you know to be online. Have your credit card ready. Jim Jannard”

    Could this be the DAY we find-out about the “Helium 8K Plus Camera”?

    Humberto Rivera
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