Thread: RED Weapon - Dynamic Range and Latitude Examined

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  1. #61  
    Senior Member Mark Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Hey Phil -

    Thanks as always - amazing.

    How exactly did you expose for this chart? (Sorry if it was explained already).

    Did you happen to bracket the chart with the lens by any chance?
    Mark Wilkinson
    Epic Dragons 1096 "Scylla" & 7150 "Charybdis"
    Leica R Addict: 15, 19, 24, 28, 35, 50, 60, 80, 90, 100, 135, 180, 35-70, 80-200
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  2. #62  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilkinson View Post
    Hey Phil -

    Thanks as always - amazing.

    How exactly did you expose for this chart? (Sorry if it was explained already).

    Did you happen to bracket the chart with the lens by any chance?
    Thanks Mark, it's explained in the first post. These charts represent total captured stops of dynamic range, meaning all chips are not clipping in R, G, B channels. And there is something very important that must be done when conducting a test like this, you need a lens that exhibits no light loss variation across the field due to vignetting at given apertures as that can hide both the clipped and possible shadow detail.

    I did test out a few things at various apertures, no bracketing however. One thing you can and should do is using the included shutters to eliminate possible light bleed/flare/glare of individual patches on the chart.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anton Shavlik View Post
    It also seems like the final ISO is a bigger jump in exposure than expected.
    ISO 12800 is the wildcard as always. At that point you're pretty much into the thick of the noise floor. Personally, even if I was to go to the extremes, I wouldn't work beyond ISO 6400 if you could avoid it. And truly at that point I'd also recommend the LLO or STD OLPFs.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

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  3. #63  
    Senior Member Mark Wilkinson's Avatar
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    Thanks, Phil - I did get that in the first post. I was trying to figure out if you metered it or just eyeballed the histogram.

    I think I'm mostly curious about how the exposure tolerance shifts as middle gray is placed in the curve.

    A test for another day :)
    Mark Wilkinson
    Epic Dragons 1096 "Scylla" & 7150 "Charybdis"
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  4. #64  
    Senior Member Jeetu Chawla's Avatar
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    Hey Phil... truly appreciate the effort you put in & not to miss the tons of hours... it's pays to follow your test, as we can prep better, based on your findings...
    Sure, some interesting pov & questions from fellow redusers just make the whole game a lot more exciting...
    Once again... Thanks Phil!
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  5. #65  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    I do repeat myself but : was this test done with frame averaging?

    Pat
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  6. #66  
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    No that would be silly
    JAKE WILGANOWSKI
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  7. #67  
    This is truly phenomenal work - testing, analyzing, and posting results like these takes a tremendous amount of time and effort. Thank you for sharing these, Phil.

    My takeaway is that Weapon, with the STH OLPF is giving 15 very clean, useable stops up to ISO 2000. Add the LLO and it will easily add another stop of latitude, possibly more. I'd love to see this same series repeated with the LLO on a Weapon (...not requesting this, btw, just saying I'd love to see it!)

    16 squeaky clean stops is pretty mind-blowing stuff. Certainly stops of exposure beyond these parameters still fall in the useable category - but past the 15th chip, we enter the world where everyone argues over whether these are useable stops.

    15-16 stops, depending on the OLPF, which are beyond debate and above reproach is mind-blowing enough for me.

    From Build 12 RED ONE to here, Weapon, in an 8-year time frame...It is almost double the latitude of the original camera! I can't help but be impressed.
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  8. #68  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Just got home, pulled an all nighter, eating leftover Thai food.


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    I do repeat myself but : was this test done with frame averaging?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Wilganowski View Post
    No that would be silly
    What would have been silly is Frame Summing the results :) Frame Averaging allows for slightly cleaner patches that are easier to read.

    Do not worry, I did both and examined both. And if you're really curious I also did some tests averaging up to 120 frames because I was curious.

    But to be thorough and transparent here's an Averaged and No Averaged result at ISO 2000, REDlogFilm so you can see the difference.

    Frame Averaged of 16 frames @ ISO 2000, RLF:




    And No Frame Averaging @ ISO 2000, RLF:





    And yes, your eyes are not deceiving you. The No Frame Averaging image reveals better separation of steps 19, 20, and 21 due to the increased noise across the frame while the Frame Averaged version produces a more solid "patch".


    While I'm typing away, I've done lots of other tests during the last week as well. Various capture resolutions downsampled to a 4K finish, experimentation with sharpening and scaling methods, as well as some more 3D LUT tests.

    Here's some nice patches I don't mind sharing. These are from all 3 OLPFs captured at 6K FF resolution, downsampled to 4K, and cropped in at 1080p (100% of the downsampled 6K>4K image in this case). These are the tonal patches on the color chart at every ISO rating within the Recommended ISO Range:











    This is essentially a look at all of the patches all at once. This is useful to see in motion and you can see that at the end of the video I posted last week.

    Time to go build a rig and wireless thing.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________
    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  9. #69  
    REDuser Sponsor Martin Stevens's Avatar
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    More greatness from Phil.

    Love it.
    Regards,
    Martin Stevens

    President and Founder of Glidecam Industries, Inc.
    Producer and Director at Metaphoric Pictures Corporation.
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  10. #70  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Impressive!
    Thanks again.
    I'm starting to love standard OLPF.
    Pat
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