Thread: Rehoused Hasselblad lenses for 8k?

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  1. #91  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Christopher, I shot these a couple of years ago for History Channel...on a HASSELBLAD 150 2.8...wide open...on a Scarlet MX @ 3K (Tilt/Shifted)
    Don't you think these would look MILES BETTER 8k on Vista Vision Weapon? That's over 250% more resolution shooting through THE SAME LENS.
    I personally think RED's growth in resolution (6K, 8K) is breathing new life into vintage glass. The camera itself is getting sharper.
    And regarding RED vs ALEXA for sharpness, all I know is the same lens looks SHARPER on Dragon. Just look at this test comparing Dragon to Amira. The 35mm CP2 renders noticeably sharper on Dragon than Amira:
    The Hasselblad shots as 800pix jpgs look soft, post some 6k R3ds or cr2s to judge,

    Of course the CP2 looks better on dragon in that test, 6k raw scaled to vimeo hd vs Alexa HD prores to vimeo HD, the dragon gains sharpness by down-converting.
    A CP2 is designed for FF35, the hasselblad FE lenses are designed for 6x6 film, nearly double the image circle of weapon 8k, its not the same comparison.
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  2. #92  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Would love to mount the MF Leica-S glass on Weapon 8K. Is that impossible? Possible but stupid expensive?

    Cheers - #19
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  3. #93  
    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    Would love to mount the MF Leica-S glass on Weapon 8K. Is that impossible? Possible but stupid expensive?
    If you wanted maximal quality, that's what you would use. The thing is that the Otus lenses are about on par with the Leica S lenses, give or take. Otus is about the same cost but easier to adapt, given that the F mount versions have an aperture ring.

    Nikon SLR lenses are great for VistaVision if they're reduced to S35, especially if they're stopped down a bit, but I would not use them for serious projects, based on what I have seen from them. I do like the 200/2, however. It's sharper than the 135/2, which is interesting.

    I made a bet on another site that so far has not been answered: the Leica T, a 16Mpx camera, with its native 35/1.4 (just released) will give sharper images than any FF Nikon body with the 58/1.4 G, both wide-open. Nobody has yet responded. $5 to your favourite charity if I lose.
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  4. #94  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    Would love to mount the MF Leica-S glass on Weapon 8K. Is that impossible? Possible but stupid expensive?

    Cheers - #19
    It's possible, theoretically, via rehousing, adapter or dedicated mount.

    The flange focal distance of the Leica-S lenses is 53mm, so there's room for a Leica-S to Canon-EF adapter for example, but probably not a PL (52mm FFD) adapter.

    Seems to be mostly the S lenses automatic/electronic aperture complicating things though.

    Unless the lenses are re-housed with manual aperture controls, which would be quite a job, you'd have to use a smart mount or adapter to adjust the aperture in-camera. Technically, you might be able to take the lens off a dumb mount or adapter, put it on a Leica-S camera to adjust the aperture, then remount it to your camera, but that obviously wouldn't be acceptable to a lot of end-users. Likewise with leaving the aperture wide open and using ND's or shutter speed for exposure adjustments.

    I think the easiest solution would be to use an adapter. Based on other ones I've seen, there are people out there who could make a Leica-S one, even with a conversion chip. Would probably cost about $700-$900.

    But realistically, when you factor in the relatively low demand for such a thing, and the expense of the lenses themselves, it's easy to see why it might never happen.
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  5. #95  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Thanks for the notes. In my perfect world RED would make a mount for the Leica-S lenses that included full control of all the "drive by wire" functions via menu, assigned keys, Fool Control and various external controllers.

    I wonder how many pre-orders with deposits it would take to get RED (or anyone else) to jump in?

    Leica already has the tooling and protocols developed for their own gear - perhaps RED could certify Leica as a 3rd party and let them make the mounts...

    Cheers - #19
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  6. #96  
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    How about a much simpler solution:
    Instead of going through this nonsense of endless (lens) conversions RED could make the 8KWeapon a true flex format camera that would allow the operator very easily adjust the capture area of the sensor if the lens was vignetting.
    Most likely all but the widest lenses will cover the full frame 8K.
    For the extreme wides that don't just quickly bring in the frame lines , frame and shoot away. Simple, cheap and elegant solution.
    Better yet: Red add to their supported lens data base the vignetting info and camera automatically adjusts the capture area to compensate. Most operators wouldn't even have clue that happened ;-)
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  7. #97  
    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm missing something Jacek, but one can window the sensor in fairly small increments already. If your point is that one could easily "work around" minor vignetting via windowing or post cropping then, yes, you can. For most narrative work, I doubt it would be a real problem, especially if you were accounting for that in choosing focal lengths.

    For certain projects, I am interested in getting some glass in front of the 8K sensor that would give that "window" look. Clean and sharp to the corners, without even a hint of vignetting or falloff, which led me to the Leica-S MF lenses. If anyone has suggestions for alternative lensing for no compromise coverage of a 21x41 sensor, please take me to school.

    Cheers - #19
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  8. #98  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    You're on the right page Blair. When it comes to FF35 designed lenses it's interesting as many, even the wides, cover. I will need to do further testing, but on certain FF35 motion picture lenses that I experienced small coverage issues with I wonder if the difference between PL and EF makes a difference even.

    As for the type of coverage, with the Weapon 8K at FF you will be living in the sweet spot of the lens and have generous coverage with somewhat minimal (if any) vignetting.

    With some FF35 designed glass you will experience heavier vignetting and depending on the lens design possibly some distortion to the bokeh and perhaps enhanced coma for instance. Just depends on the design of the optics.

    Leica-S might one day happen on Weapon 8K, but for the time being it's not an easy endeavor.

    I picked up my full set of Mamiyas because they suited my needs. The Hassy glass is also a good solution. But I also have a slew of FF35 glass that will be on there probably even more of the time mostly due the speed advantages, or in the case of the Otus primes, optical advantages.
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  9. #99  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blair S. Paulsen View Post
    Thanks for the notes. In my perfect world RED would make a mount for the Leica-S lenses that included full control of all the "drive by wire" functions via menu, assigned keys, Fool Control and various external controllers.

    I wonder how many pre-orders with deposits it would take to get RED (or anyone else) to jump in?

    Leica already has the tooling and protocols developed for their own gear - perhaps RED could certify Leica as a 3rd party and let them make the mounts...

    Cheers - #19
    If you're talking about new mounts for the 8K Weapons, RED have yet to reveal what they've got planned for that, so who knows.

    In terms of 'dumb' mounts, the XPL52 mount that Hawk made for their new Anamorphic and Vantage One T1 lenses could be sign of things to come - http://www.vantagefilm.com/en/news/f...-angeles-10510

    But if you're looking at new smart mounts for the 8K Weapons, a Leica-S one would make some sense, because, as you say, it could make use of the Leica-S lenses auto-focus and auto-aperture, and via adapters, also enable the auto-focus and auto-aperture features of the Contax 645 and Hassleblad HC & HCD lenses. Leica already make adapters for those other lenses to be used on their S system cameras - http://leicastoremiami.com/products/...-contax-lenses http://leicastoremiami.com/products/...and-hcd-lenses

    Not sure though if RED would need permission or have to pay to make a Leica-S mount, or how receptive Leica would be to that if it is required.

    Funny that Jacek responds to the question of adapting lenses to RED, as his lens mounts and adapters are a perfect example of the kind of high quality products that can be made, if there's enough interest - http://optitek.org/products/canon-pr...-mini-cameras/

    Interesting idea too, to make the RED camera's capable of auto-cropping to avoid vignetting. I can also imagine profiling specific lens/aperture combinations by pointing them at a flat neutrally coloured target and having the camera correct for darkening and discoloration around the edges of the frame. Something for the future perhaps.
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  10. #100  
    Senior Member Daniel Soderberg's Avatar
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    Is the Hasselblad 40mm f4 CFE shutterless and good to use with Reds/PL?
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