Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Taylor Swift " Bad Blood " shot on Weapon by Christopher Probst

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  1. #81  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Probst View Post
    On an aside, it seems there is very little interest in the visual construction, blocking, editing-linking of shots, or lighting here... just sayin...
    Haha, actually this is ALL I want to hear. Just don't want to bug you with too many questions!!!

    But since you opened the door...did you guys start with an animatic? How storyboarded was this?

    Also - who CUT this??!! I come from post, where EDITORS are king. Lets give this guy/gal their due! Who is this genius??!

    Thanks again Chris. Having your technical feedback on something this massive is rare...and MUCH appreciated.

    best
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  2. #82  
    Senior Member Christopher Probst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Well I'll happily bring it back. I'm seeing a good deal of fluoro/Kino in there. Any tricky lighting setups going on you care to chime in on? Always curious. Really dig the lighting and exposure choice in the boxing ring, that location is flexible and provides a real nice deep frame.

    How long was the total shoot out of curiosity? (including pyro day)
    Yes there was quite a bit of Kinos used throughout, BUT also a mega shit ton of LED as well. Lots of strips worked into the sets like the Lab and various bits of the training room dressing. We used tons of ribbon, but still had to steal from one set to finish the next set we moved on to.

    Since you mention the LA Convention Center parking garage, I'll say that I've seen the location used several times to different effect, and I did mention I shot it last year as well... So I'm pleased that I came up with another visual handling of that HUGE space and that I feel created a controled, sytlized look. 80% of what we have to do as cinematographers is walk into an environment/situation and come up with a plan how to acheive a look in mind. So first, what look do you want? Second, how the fuck are you going to achieve it? Exacting control in these situations is what separates the men from the boys. I'm glad you keyed in on that fact.

    Including our prelight/explosion day, 5 days total, as I broke down in my behind the scenes post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Haha, actually this is ALL I want to hear. Just don't want to bug you with too many questions!!!

    But since you opened the door...did you guys start with an animatic? How storyboarded was this?

    Also - who CUT this??!! I come from post, where EDITORS are king. Lets give this guy/gal their due! Who is this genius??!

    Thanks again Chris. Having your technical feedback on something this massive is rare...and MUCH appreciated.

    best

    Oftentimes Joseph does do a primative stick figure storyboard in a language only he can decipher. There are complex theories for shots/edits going on here too elaborate to even begin to explain, but Joseph shoots for his edit and cuts right on set. He often has an editor come in to man the avid while we shoot and then in between setups he runs over and finesses what has been roughed in. But the linking of shots to frame-matching accuracy happens live right on set and confirmed live right on set as we shoot.
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  3. #83  
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    Hi Mr. Probst!

    Lotta fun there!

    Just saw the "Explosion" at 1:42, with a, well, different result. Any... tips on how to avoid that sort of result?

    Thank you very much

    Fury
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    Thank you very much

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  4. #84  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Probst View Post

    Oftentimes Joseph does do a primative stick figure storyboard in a language only he can decipher. There are complex theories for shots/edits going on here too elaborate to even begin to explain, but Joseph shoots for his edit and cuts right on set. He often has an editor come in to man the avid while we shoot and then in between setups he runs over and finesses what has been roughed in. But the linking of shots to frame-matching accuracy happens live right on set and confirmed live right on set as we shoot.
    Wow. Editing on set. Are you guys AMAing everything in? And was the Weapon's Prores being used?

    Also as this was 6K anamorphic - what was the actual desqueezed resolution? About 8K?


    So basically Joseph has a "rough cut" in the Avid, and you guys start to drop the shots in the timeline as you shoot...making sure everything "matches" before breaking and moving on...is what you mean?

    Was the 6K useful for reframing, etc?
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  5. #85  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Probst View Post
    Robert, with all due respect, go fuck yourself. How am I supposed to take your keyboard-warrior backhanded comments, like, "Wow, what a piece of shit, but that's not your fault, so yay you!" Know what, it IS my work and my creation as well. So passive aggressive snide remarks are really not appreciated or called for. Do you think we are fucking morons? Do you think every element of this work wasn't calculated for its maximum effect on its target audience? We are not aiming for high art here, it's pop culture eye candy aimed at empowering teenage girls.

    So unless you have anything of value to add to a discussion, you can keep you useless bullshit of self-worth posturing to yourself.
    I said your work was awesome. It is. I don't think Joseph is a moron, and I never said anything negative about you at all, and still am not. I am actually taken aback by how perfect your work is. It's truly wonderful. If ever I want to or need to hand over cinematography to someone else ,you would be among our first calls, if we afford you.

    There are many ways to affect any given target audience, many ways of achieving that same goal and pushing the psychological buttons of a specific demographic. No matter how much market research one does it's still not science, and there are still choices and judgement calls to be made. I don't like, nor agree, with the choices Joseph made. I love the ones you made.

    There are lots of very successful - successful in that they helped the artist get out there and make money and land new fans within a similar target demographic - music videos out there that chose a different kind of route, like K.P.s "Fireworks", and that I like much more, even truly love, at a directing and conceptual level. I love them not because of just personal taste, but because it's easy to see how fans within the targeted demographic could connect emotionally with them, really resonate deep in their hearts, and I've seen research that show that to be true. You do that with a new or existing fan, you win. Money follows.

    However, again, none are really better than your work in terms of cinematography and a truly beautiful fashion look. I know first hand how hard it is to shoot gloss like that, and how much work and prep and pre-vis it takes. It's often at least 100 times more work that doco realism. Again, kudos to you. To Joseph, in my opinion, less so.


    BTW - no self worth posturing. I am pitching a breakfast sausage commercial today. I do not claim to be "better" than anyone, and certainly not more noble, but I do hope that people do more beautiful things, beautiful at a deep level, because I am a big music video fan and I love watching them, and the best stay with us for generations.
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  6. #86  
    Senior Member Christopher Probst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Fury View Post
    Hi Mr. Probst!

    Lotta fun there!

    Just saw the "Explosion" at 1:42, with a, well, different result. Any... tips on how to avoid that sort of result?

    Thank you very much

    Fury

    I guess the implication in the question is that the explosion looks fake? We had the actual artist blast through a styrofoam wall with an air canon blasting debris with her as well, so in that regard, that's as ballsy as we were willing to take it. She did her own stunts and it's commendable especially in the light that on the first take we blew her off her feet!



    She's a total pro and a real trooper. She immediately wanted to go again and take 2 is in the video. She even nailed her line on time. So I don't know about you, but I think it's perfect as is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Wow. Editing on set. Are you guys AMAing everything in? And was the Weapon's Prores being used?

    Also as this was 6K anamorphic - what was the actual desqueezed resolution? About 8K?


    So basically Joseph has a "rough cut" in the Avid, and you guys start to drop the shots in the timeline as you shoot...making sure everything "matches" before breaking and moving on...is what you mean?

    Was the 6K useful for reframing, etc?
    Nick, on the first day, there is a blank timeline. We know which sequences go where in the song. So we shoot a scene and drop it in that part of the timeline. It's all in Joseph's mind and masterplan, we just need to fill in each missing hole. At the end of the shoot, we hit play and watch the completed video to usually about 95% accuracy. On both Taylor videos, she was able to watch the rough cut, maybe request an alternate take for a different facial expression, and aside from the post work and vfx shots needed, we locked picture there and then.

    We capture the videotap feed live and use that to edit immediately as we shoot, and then the editor on set gets transcodes as they come on from the on set DIT and replaces the videotap with the transcoded footage, matching take and timecode manually. This has proved the fastest workflow for us and enables Joseph to edit the split second after the camera cuts to confirm the precise timing/matching he's after.

    Desqueezing doesn't necessarily create any added resolution from no where, it's just stretching the normal 6:5 aspect ratio...(3792x3160 to 7584x3160). As for reframing, we used the full 6K ANA frame with framelines within for reframing.
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  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Probst View Post
    Critical analysis is certainly not a problem, but viciously worded attacks that serve no purpose other to prop the reviewer up on some superior artistic high ground are another matter entirely. I will argue that the women in the video do span a range of "perfect" to not so perfect... I hardly call Lena Dunman model material. And Ellie Golding is pretty average/normal looking human being in my opinion as well. Selena Gomez has put on a lot of weight and though attractive, nothing like some of the Victoria's Secret models that do appear in the video as well. I did choose to try to make all of the talent appear as glamorous as possible as this video is ultimately a popcorn/fashion piece. So I guess in that regard we suceeded.

    As a forum to discuss cameras, cinematography and filmmaking in general, I find it iteresting this is what you choose to hone in on. And with your whopping 30 posts in past 3 years it shows that you really don't care about this forum all that much anyway. So you can draw your own conclusion of what you should do next.

    On an aside, it seems there is very little interest in the visual construction, blocking, editing-linking of shots, or lighting here... just sayin...
    I thank you for your thoughtful reply.

    Yes only 30 posts; I managed to get over a fetish to buy gear, and these days I only rent cameras including RED's (and usually their operator too). But I like to pop my head in from time to time because I still have a fetish concerning reading about the gear if not buying it. I usually force myself not to post; failed this time, should have stuck to it, oh well.
    Congratulations with the video; I genuinely did like it and it is interesting to be able to read about the BTS stuff from people of your calibre.
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  8. #88  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Probst View Post

    Nick, on the first day, there is a blank timeline. We know which sequences go where in the song. So we shoot a scene and drop it in that part of the timeline. It's all in Joseph's mind and masterplan, we just need to fill in each missing hole. At the end of the shoot, we hit play and watch the completed video to usually about 95% accuracy. On both Taylor videos, she was able to watch the rough cut, maybe request an alternate take for a different facial expression, and aside from the post work and vfx shots needed, we locked picture there and then.

    We capture the videotap feed live and use that to edit immediately as we shoot, and then the editor on set gets transcodes as they come on from the on set DIT and replaces the videotap with the transcoded footage, matching take and timecode manually. This has proved the fastest workflow for us and enables Joseph to edit the split second after the camera cuts to confirm the precise timing/matching he's after.
    WOW. Literally blowing my mind right now. The post guy in me is getting shivers. In my promo world, we've NEVER seen this workflow. Ever. We get to edit 3 days later, and I have to trust my "promo brain" that all the cuts match.

    WOW.

    Just wow.

    Fucking love this so hard.

    Chris can I just say THANK YOU 2,000 times? Having you so accessible right now is kind of AMAZING. Really.
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  9. #89  
    Senior Member Nick Morrison's Avatar
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    PS Chris anyway you can shed light of use of CTB 1/2? When that's called for?

    thanks!
    Nick Morrison
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  10. #90  
    Senior Member Christopher Probst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Ruffo New View Post
    I said your work was awesome. It is. I don't think Joseph is a moron, and I never said anything negative about you at all, and still am not. I am actually taken aback by how perfect your work is. It's truly wonderful. If ever I want to or need to hand over cinematography to someone else ,you would be among our first calls, if we afford you.

    There are many ways to affect any given target audience, many ways of achieving that same goal and pushing the psychological buttons of a specific demographic. No matter how much market research one does it's still not science, and there are still choices and judgement calls to be made. I don't like, nor agree, with the choices Joseph made. I love the ones you made.

    There are lots of very successful - successful in that they helped the artist get out there and make money and land new fans within a similar target demographic - music videos out there that chose a different kind of route, like K.P.s "Fireworks", and that I like much more, even truly love, at a directing and conceptual level. I love them not because of just personal taste, but because it's easy to see how fans within the targeted demographic could connect emotionally with them, really resonate deep in their hearts, and I've seen research that show that to be true. You do that with a new or existing fan, you win. Money follows.

    However, again, none are really better than your work in terms of cinematography and a truly beautiful fashion look. I know first hand how hard it is to shoot gloss like that, and how much work and prep and pre-vis it takes. It's often at least 100 times more work that doco realism. Again, kudos to you. To Joseph, in my opinion, less so.


    BTW - no self worth posturing. I am pitching a breakfast sausage commercial today. I do not claim to be "better" than anyone, and certainly not more noble, but I do hope that people do more beautiful things, beautiful at a deep level, because I am a big music video fan and I love watching them, and the best stay with us for generations.
    Robert, stating that you may not connect with a director's choices is one thing and perfectly acceptable, but coming out of the gate and calling something "mindless, boring dreck of the worst kind, like it was conceived by an illiterate 17 year old" in one terse, short post is fucking insulting. Let's not kid ourselves or downplay it. I get it, you are back peddling now a bit, and it's warranted. Your post was in ill taste and ungentlemanly internet manners. Apologies go farther than coming back with more “wisdom” from you of how we should or could have done better.

    My work with Joseph spans many ranges of emotional connection and intent. We chose this path for this job. That you didn’t connect with it, I’m perfectly fine with. But we and certainly Taylor Swift don’t need to be educated on how to connect with our target audiences. She certainly has no trouble making the “money follow” her…

    And I’ll have you know, this video has already broken YouTube’s 1 day record for most views and cracked 30 million views in 2 days. So I think we hit our targets as well. Additionally, our last Taylor Swift video we did, Black Space, has also broken YouTube records as the fastest video to reach 500 million views, faster than Gangnam Style, and is now rated #8 of all time videos at 860 million views and still rising. It’s about to bump down one of Joseph and my previous videos, Eminen’s Love the Way You Lie , which has 866 million views, but that vid has been out for almost 5 years.

    Post your socially conscious, emotionally connecting work here and let’s talk directing prowess, otherwise, go back and fuck yourself all over again.
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