Thread: I'd like to chime in, if I may...

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  1. #1 I'd like to chime in, if I may... 
    Senior Member Adam Rook's Avatar
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    I debated for a long time whether to write this or not but decided to go ahead. My dad had a saying, "Do the best you can with what you have."

    I just want to say that with all the Weapon news these past couple days I'm kinda shocked at some of the responses here. So many people are upset because of the price break for Weapon. Just think about the last part of that sentence for a moment. I may lose a lot of credibility after saying this but I love this forum and I'm so happy that many of you have taken time to answer questions I've had and are willing to let me chime in on things and I'm treated like one of the guys. Well guess what, I don't even own a Red. And maybe my view would be different if I did but it kinda shocks me how many people are ticked off at the whole Weapon thing.

    Count your blessings guys. I'm still shooting on a Canon DSLR. Why? Partly because I have a full-time job and I'm working to grow my business on the weekends but also because Canon doesn't offer to let me trade in my 5 year old camera for a new one. No body does. People are acting like they are screwed now because of Weapon. You're not. From my perspective you all have the greatest thing going for you. You get to wake up every morning and fire up your Scarlet, or Epic, or even R1 and create amazing images. Weapon isn't even available right now and won't be for some time. Right now you still have the most cutting edge camera on the market. I'm super jealous of all of you and honestly it kinda rubs me the wrong way to hear so many people angry at Jarred and Jim for not offering "enough" trade in for the newest toys. You can't get that from Arri. You can't get it from BMD.

    As I said, I'm not officially a member of the Red family, yet. But one day I promise I will be. Just try to think back to the day before you got your first Red and remember how excited you were. Be grateful that you have what you have and that Red STILL supports you. I'm not sure Canon supports me anymore nor could they care less.

    When Weapon is released none of you guys are out of a job. You still get to make beautiful images. And you'll still be able to do it for many years to come. Look at what is STILL being produced with R1s.

    All I'm trying to say is take a break, breathe for a minute and then look at your Epic sitting on your desk and say to yourself, "My God I have the greatest tool in the world at my disposal any time I want." And then remember the guys that are still scratching a clawing to get to where you are right now. Count your blessing. I'm completely jealous of you all.

    I hope this doesn't discredit me too much from posting here.
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  2. #2  
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    Well said Adam. I started with Scarlet, upgraded to Epic-MX and then to Dragon. I am not disillusioned at all with the cost of Weapon. Yes, it's more than I had expected, but there must be a very valid and real reason as to why. I get to shoot what I want the way I want because of Red, and I can't thank them enough for allowing me to go up the RED ladder at my own pace. If I ever want to go Weapon, I know the pathway is open to me, or I just sell my Epic Dragon, and I'm still lucky!
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  3. #3 Affordable 
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    Hey Adam, thanks for chiming in. I’m another person who doesn’t post very often to this forum but have read it almost every day for the past decade. I am a member of the Red family and purchased Red One serial number 258 long before the Red One existed. So I’m an old “Fan Boy” and member of the little army that helped push Red along through the years in my very small very humble way. I was a member of DVX community before Red, and owned a DVX100 because IMHO it was a game changer that put incredible image quality (for the time) in the hands of the individual consumer/prosumer. When Red came into the picture, it was another game changer and though it was definitely priced higher than the prosumer video cameras of the time, it was accessible to me. I then upgraded to Epic X and then to Dragon, and although it was difficult to find the funds, the upgrades were again accessible. To so many this new upgrade is affordable, but for me it just simply isn't. Perhaps I’m a poor business man that in all these years my business has not grown to keep up with the pace of Red Digital Cinema. They are not wrong to capitalize on their hard work and great ideas. But for some of us old “Fan Boys” it's difficult to come to terms with the fact that the company has outgrown us. We are just bitter old men. Forgive us while we pout.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Clayton Taylor's Avatar
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    I think the problem is that it was pushed hard how awesome weapon is going to be so you HAVE to have a dragon before NAB to take advantage of it.. so many people dropped a grip of cash to get a new camera which this week was valued at next to nothing by their own makers... for example.. Scarlet Dragon is a 14.5k brain alone... trade in is $2.5k... you do that math.
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  5. #5  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Taylor View Post
    I think the problem is that it was pushed hard how awesome weapon is going to be so you HAVE to have a dragon before NAB to take advantage of it.. so many people dropped a grip of cash to get a new camera which this week was valued at next to nothing by their own makers... for example.. Scarlet Dragon is a 14.5k brain alone... trade in is $2.5k... you do that math.
    This is still not correct if you upgraded or own a Scarlet-X Dragon before NAB. The credit is $5000 for previous owners. After NAB it's $2500. And both of those situations come with a $5000 Accessory Credit you can spend anytime.

    That is the math.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Taylor View Post
    I think the problem is that it was pushed hard how awesome weapon is going to be so you HAVE to have a dragon before NAB to take advantage of it.. so many people dropped a grip of cash to get a new camera which this week was valued at next to nothing by their own makers... for example.. Scarlet Dragon is a 14.5k brain alone... trade in is $2.5k... you do that math.
    But that wrong, check the deal again... you are basically 7.5k USD wrong. You get 10k USD if you trade in your scarlet dragon today. 5k towards accessory and 5k deducted on the camera. 5+5 is 10 ok...

    So you bought the camera for 14.5k you get 10k back, or if you wait and do not pay the deposit now you are able to get 7.5k USD for the camera, granted you need to buy accessories for 5k but still you get atleast 7,5k worth for the camera you bought.... and hopfully been able to use over some time, if not you can use it for some time forward and then still upgrade and get that 7,5k back....

    Further more, red does not force you to trade in your camera you are free to sell it to anyone here or on EBAY... Red is like any business, compare to a car dealer where you can trade in your old car when you decide to pick up a new one. And by doing so you do not have to go trough the hassle of dealing with a buyer etc. What I wonder is why on earth do you guys think that you would get much more than half the original cost back when you come back with the car after a few years use? It´s an old model, it´s used hence the value is lowered.

    Here is Jarreds quote for scarlet upgrade discount:

    - If you own SCARLET-X DRAGON before NAB, credit towards WEAPON is $5000 plus a $5000 weapon accessory credit. If you own Scarlet-X Dragon After NAB
    begins, your trade in is $2500 plus a $5000 weapon accessory credit .

    The above really tells me that owning a scarlet dragon before getting weapon can be done for as little as 4.5k USD... if thats not a great fucking deal, what is?
    Björn Benckert
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Donald MJ Anderson's Avatar
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    $5000 accessory credit is to compensate for the accessories a Scarlet owner bought. Why apply it to the camera as well?
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald MJ Anderson View Post
    $5000 accessory credit is to compensate for the accessories a Scarlet owner bought. Why apply it to the camera as well?
    Dont understand... You mean those 5k USD are not worth anything or why does red give away 5k USD worth of accessories for no reason?

    I mean you bought the accessories with / for your scarlet and they are yours to keep or sell. But you say you want compensation?
    Björn Benckert
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  9. #9  
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    I think part of the reason for frustration of some of the people who upgraded to Dragon at the last minute is that for many of them Weapon is not affordable at all even if they upgraded. They spent their wad to get into Dragon and then saw that what they paid for the upgrade was just a sliver of what they were going to need to spend to get to their goal of having a Weapon. I can see how that would sting.
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Adam Rook's Avatar
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    I just don't think Red will leave everyone in the lurch after NAB. They've been really good to their customer base and that's one of the reasons I'm working so hard to get one. I mean you can't send your C300 back to Canon and demand $2.5K toward a C300 MKii. I can understand the frustration, honestly I can. Especially with the MX-Dragon upgrade being like getting a new camera for $20K less than a new camera. The good thing about all the frustration is that Red's customers have a voice. And they listen. And I do also realize that I'm looking at it from an outsiders perspective.

    But from an outsiders perspective you have the Ferrari of cameras. Sure it's not the LaFerrari but it is the F12 Berlinetta. How many people can say they have that? Hopefully soon it will be me.
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