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  #1 For The Indies / Our Scarlet customers... 
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    I feel like alot of our Scarlet customers and the indie shooters out there are having some separation anxiety looking at the price point of Weapon and a few people are concerned we have forgotten about the "little guys".

    Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end.

    Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is anything but low end... It is actually a better camera than almost every high end camera out there if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near.

    But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

    The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

    I believe it is some existing Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

    The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

    And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...
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    And order was once again restored to the land...

    Thank you Jarred.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end. Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is actually a better camera than almost all high end cameras if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near. But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

    The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

    I believe It is some exiting Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

    The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

    And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...
    Glad you are not trying to change your number, Jarred… so… how about dinner saturday night? ;)

    Seriously, I love all the education I get about the inner workings of what goes into one of these marvels from posts such as the above. I shot my first (and so far, only) feature on 35mm with an ARRI BL4… a beast! And every time I hold my DRAGON and fire it up, I just gaze at it in shock and wonder. So frickin' amazing!
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    With posts like that from Jarred, you can put your trust in RED.

    I am, and have since 2007.
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    I believe It is some exiting Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.
    If it was actually $12k in cash I would be less contemplative. But there would still be some pretty big unknowns. I would lose my sidehandle which never leaves my camera and instead have the sidekick which I get a lot of people want and a lot of people hate the Sidehandle, but I've always been a fan. And if I move to XL without a side handle I'll only have 90 minutes of power without a REDVolt to failover to or the option of shooting for 30 minutes in an extremely lightweight handheld configuration. I love the ports all on the right with the Base Expander... but I'm already getting really excited about tethering which I would lose. I love the toolless attachment of the 7" but when I put it on a Noga it now requires a large bulk adapter. The image quality will be nearly identical. It looks like compression can be reduced by 10%. So ultimately I would say Epic vs Weapon for my configuration is kind of 1 step forward one step back on form factor when I look at it really closely. To me it feels more like a crossgrade than an upgrade. It would be like moving from FCP-7 to FCP-X when FCP-X was launched. But it's reassuring to hear that the DSMC Epic/Scarlet customers aren't going to be treated like FCP-7 customers. I look forward to hearing about what those options will be going forward for Epic Dragon owners.
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    Senior Member Brian Boyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    If it was actually $12k in cash I would be less contemplative. But there would still be some pretty big unknowns. I would lose my sidehandle which never leaves my camera and instead have the sidekick which I get a lot of people want and a lot of people hate the Sidehandle, but I've always been a fan. And if I move to XL without a side handle I'll only have 90 minutes of power without a REDVolt to failover to or the option of shooting for 30 minutes in an extremely lightweight handheld configuration. I love the ports all on the right with the Base Expander... but I'm already getting really excited about tethering which I would lose. I love the toolless attachment of the 7" but when I put it on a Noga it now requires a large bulk adapter. The image quality will be nearly identical. It looks like compression can be reduced by 10%. So ultimately I would say Epic vs Weapon for my configuration is kind of 1 step forward one step back on form factor when I look at it really closely. To me it feels more like a crossgrade than an upgrade. It would be like moving from FCP-7 to FCP-X when FCP-X was launched. But it's reassuring to hear that the DSMC Epic/Scarlet customers aren't going to be treated like FCP-7 customers. I look forward to hearing about what those options will be going forward for Epic Dragon owners.
    From what I understand, Element Technica is making a side handle. It won't house the Redvolt like before but the XL module you get for free with the Weapon upgrade can use them, a la the Peter Jackson Weapon photo.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Boyer View Post
    From what I understand, Element Technica is making a side handle. It won't house the Redvolt like before but the XL module you get for free with the Weapon upgrade can use them, a la the Peter Jackson Weapon photo.
    This is OK, but if you really want to strip down RED for a handheld shoot alone, it would still be great to see some sort of Side Handle 2.0. Keep everything as small and as light as possible.
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    Dont worry we are not abandoning the "lower" end and just focusing on the super high end. Truth be told the Scarlet Dragon is actually a better camera than almost all high end cameras if you actually compare the specs. And there is definitely a future for Scarlet Dragon... you just don't know about it yet and it is not anywhere near. But Weapon isn't in Scarlet territory.. it never was intended to be a direct jump for most Scarlet owners. Remember, Weapon sits above Epic. And for the fortunate Scarlet owners that can do the jump.... we give you the option.

    The requests for a Weapon to to have the price of a Scarlet is an unreasonable expectation. For Weapon we had to invent alot of new technology to make it possible. Remember we design our own ASICS, Sensors, Mechanicals etc. And that is not cheap. It is easy to just take machine vision sensors and off the shelf FPGAs and make an inexpensive camera. But they usually fall short. That of course getting better as the years go on... But so are we.

    I believe it is some existing Epic customers that are in a position of contemplation. Part of that is from the confusion of the credits and options and some don't realize that we are giving you more than $10k off in credits or accessories, plus the value of your trade-in. You are actually paying somewhere around $12k all things considered to do the upgrade to MG Weapon depending on what you are going from. And that is a killer deal.

    The Weapon fills a hole for the best of the best. It really is incredible. Even if you take away the 8K sensor, the improvements we have made to the form factor, the internal processing, ProRes, etc.. is a huge achievement. Our engineers solved alot of "impossibles" along the way. the 3rd party module support is finally going to make use of the modular vision. The Weapon has done extremely well this week with the customers it was made for. Wouldn't change anything about it.

    And yes Mark that was a great analogy. We probably do spoil our customers. But our customers also spoil us...
    Great to hear. This should be on page 1, or made into a separate post altogether (since this and posts like it are a bit scattered everywhere right now). I think it'll calm the storm a bit.
    Last edited by BrendanLeahy; 04-17-2015 at 04:06 PM.
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  #9  
    Fire Chief Jarred Land's Avatar
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    actually probably a good idea Brendan.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    actually probably a good idea Brendan.
    Thanks! Glad to see everything clarified and know RED is still thinking about all of its users
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