Thread: WEAPON - THE "WRONG" IDEA... (sanity check)

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  1. #51  
    Senior Member Milan S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Milan - this is simply not true. Jared has clearly stated that ALL three Dragon cameras (Scarlet, Epic and Weapon) will be eligible to upgrade to the next future tech coming after Dragon. See the Update 3 on the bottom of my first post in this thread...

    Peter
    How does that compute with body > sensor > body > sensor upgrade pattern?

    According to that philosophy it's the end of the road for Epic Dragon, as far as the sensor upgrades go.

    Sure, maybe you will be able to trade it in at a high price, in which case it shouldn't be called an upgrade.
    It will be the end of the road for Epic Dragon. Dare I bring up the 'O' word.

    The only way to stay on the train is to upgrade to Weapon which at present doesn't make sense.

    PS you are smoking way too much.
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  2. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milan S. View Post
    PS you are smoking way too much.
    LOL

    Ok so here's the deal. Weapon is the future 'best' camera correct? And Scarlet and Epic are currently 'maxed' out with the dragon sensor. That means one of two things: 1. Weapon is the only future camera for RED. or 2. Scarlet (good) and Epic (better) will proceed with a new body upgrade, then sensor, etc.So looking at it right now, the new Epic will have to have lower specs than the current Weapon (which would def. be a downgrade from the current EPIC dragon) or there would be no point in the weapon being higher tiered. And then the scarlet would have even less features.
    BODY SENSOR BODY SENSOR BODY SENSOR BODY SENSOR
    2007 2011 2013 2015-16? 2015-16?
    WEAPON CF 6K WEAPON VV CF 8K
    WEAPON MAG 6K
    RED ONE RED ONE MX EPIC-MX 5K EPIC DRAGON 6K EPIC (2015 body) 5K? EPIC VV?
    SCARLET-MX 4K SCARLET DRAGON 5K SCARLET (2015 body) 4K? SCARLET VV?
    Last edited by Grant Smucker; 04-14-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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  3. #53  
    Senior Member Dr. Sassi's Avatar
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    Peter, the point you bring home is simplified this, RED will pushing the envelope and what ever seems to be now chiseled in stone will certainly change. Like there is now an option to upgrade a Scarlett-Dragon to an Epic-Dragon.
    Things will change and RED will open up new options. I hope for a Weapon-Aluminum in 2016, right after all updates, upgrades and trade ins are done. I'm happy that they pushed hard to get the best new playground for an upcoming new sensor. I'm not happy to wait, as my budget is not large enough, but I'm happy that the journey continues, even if I get only postcards for a while, instead of sitting in the boat.

    Thanks for the graphic. :o)
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  4. #54  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
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    This graph doesn't take into account the economics of an upgrade. Yes, we might still "be in the future" with our Epic Dragons, but to really get the latest technology from Red we need to upgrade in two steps, first to get Weapon, then get "nextgen". This means that we first need to pay for the Weapon upgrade and then pay for the "nextgen" upgrade. If we could go with the "nextgen" upgrade directly with our Epic Dragon body, that would probably be end of line and we still need Weapon to continue. This would mean that we still need to go Weapon however the future looks.

    Of course, Red might change the camera body once more in the future and when they do that they might give a similar price for upgrading from both Epic Drgon and from Weapon Dragon. That would be best for anyone who couldn't really afford to go Weapon at this time. Or reduce the price for upgrading to Weapon when a new body technology arrives, giving some an edge once again while we who don't have the economy to go Weapon now could do that at that time together with a new sensor.

    But if we were forced to go Weapon to be able to then upgrade to a new sensor (nextgen Dragon), then the Epic Dragon we have now is truly end of the line. The numbers show that as a fact.
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  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christoffer Glans View Post
    This graph doesn't take into account the economics of an upgrade. Yes, we might still "be in the future" with our Epic Dragons, but to really get the latest technology from Red we need to upgrade in two steps, first to get Weapon, then get "nextgen". This means that we first need to pay for the Weapon upgrade and then pay for the "nextgen" upgrade. If we could go with the "nextgen" upgrade directly with our Epic Dragon body, that would probably be end of line and we still need Weapon to continue. This would mean that we still need to go Weapon however the future looks.

    Of course, Red might change the camera body once more in the future and when they do that they might give a similar price for upgrading from both Epic Drgon and from Weapon Dragon. That would be best for anyone who couldn't really afford to go Weapon at this time. Or reduce the price for upgrading to Weapon when a new body technology arrives, giving some an edge once again while we who don't have the economy to go Weapon now could do that at that time together with a new sensor.

    But if we were forced to go Weapon to be able to then upgrade to a new sensor (nextgen Dragon), then the Epic Dragon we have now is truly end of the line. The numbers show that as a fact.
    The added confusion is all the different naming. I think when you say 'Weapon' you are referring to the new body, correct? In my mind we have the Scarlet & Epic (in 2011 bodies) and then the Weapon (in a 2015 body). This makes sense because ideally the bodies would be the same for the family of cameras to make accessories usable across cameras etc. So in order for Epic & Scarlet (or whatever the future names are) to continue, they will need to be adapted into a 2015 body. Then comes new sensor etc.
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  6. #56  
    Senior Member Peter Majtan's Avatar
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    Grant - the 8K VV sensor is not a new sensor. It is a larger slice of the current Dragon sensor. This simply adds (yet) another camera to the top-of-the-range and just like the 6K Dragon Weapons will be the new top-tier above Epic Dragon - the 8K Dragon Weapon will then be the new top-tier above the 6K Dragon Weapons. This is not a new gen sensor tech, so your graph is not accurate... ;o)

    Chris - once again ;o) - I will "borrow" my reply to Adam on the other thread:

    I also believe that the next generation sensor will be only in "Weapon" shaped body (or perhaps even something else entirely).
    But that does not mean that you MUST upgrade to Weapon Dragon first...

    Let's assume for the "clarity's" sake that the new sensor technology after Dragon is going to be called "Mercury".
    You are assuming that we must follow this path: Epic Dragon -> Weapon Dragon -> Weapon "Mercury"
    Where in reality (based on Jarred's direct and clear replies) there will be option to just: Epic Dragon -> Weapon Mercury (and for that matter: Scarlet Dragon -> Weapon Mercury)
    Having said that - his replies do not eliminate the possibility of: Epic Dragon -> Epic Mercury (I agree this is not highly likely - but certainly not impossible either)

    What is however sure from his reply is that you do not have to upgrade to Weapon Dragon in order to continue down the path.
    You can do so with "just" the Epic Dragon or even Scarlet Dragon for that matter. As he said - "All Dragons will be able to advance to the next round" - and that includes the Epic and Scarlet...

    I hope this is clear(er) now...

    Peter

    PS: I do love cigars and fine alcohol - but I only enjoy both in a extremely limited quantities and on very few occasions through out the year. For me this emoticon reflects "chilled out" attitude. Basically try to imagine me with that huge grin on my face being relaxed smoking a fine cigar while I type such a post. It is easy to miss-read faceless posts on the internet without seeing the human emotions behind it. I have seen this too many times to count and it affected me personally as well. We are from so many different cultural and social backgrounds from all around the world. Don't take things as personal attacks - certainly not from me. I am just here with that grin on my face chilling with the proverbial cigar. And - just for the record - that is not a "smart=ass" or "arrogant" grin - this is (for me) a simple "feel-good" grin...

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    Those who know me personally know I am much more like this...:



    Well, maybe not as good looking, but hey - you get the picture... ;o)

    I am most definitely very passionate about my work and our industry - and passion can easily be misunderstood for aggression - especially during a faceless conversation on the internet...

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  7. #57  
    Senior Member vincent kardasik's Avatar
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    Great post and great thread Peter!
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  8. #58  
    Senior Member Curran Giddens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Where in reality (based on Jarred's direct and clear replies) there will be option to just: Epic Dragon -> Weapon Mercury (and for that matter: Scarlet Dragon -> Weapon Mercury)
    Sure, but I wouldn't get anyones hopes up that it will be worth it. Scarlet Dragon is now only a $2500 trade-in credit towards Weapon Dragon. I don't consider that a viable "upgrade" path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Majtan View Post
    Having said that - his replies do not eliminate the possibility of: Epic Dragon -> Epic Mercury (I agree this is not highly likely - but certainly not impossible either)
    I'm sure you will need a Weapon Brain / body to be able to upgrade to the next sensor.

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  9. #59  
    Senior Member Milan S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curran Giddens View Post
    Sure, but I wouldn't get anyones hopes up that it will be worth it. Scarlet Dragon is now only a $2500 trade-in credit towards Weapon Dragon. I don't consider that a viable "upgrade" path.



    I'm sure you will need a Weapon Brain to be able to upgrade to the next sensor.
    Exactly. I don't understand Peter's mission to claim otherwise, there are absolutely no facts to support it.
    A lot of people come here to get the info, it's bad enough having to hunt for facts amongst thousands of user's posts.
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  10. #60  
    Senior Member Peter Majtan's Avatar
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    Milan - with all due respect - I am not the one spreading FUD here. Everything I have posted as fact has been backed up by relevant posts from RED's top brass. And everything else that was my own belief or honest opinion was always clearly marked as such.
    You on the other hand have posted many "fact" statements that are outright false and misleading.

    I have nothing else to say to you, let's leave it there...

    Peter
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