Thread: WEAPON - THE "WRONG" IDEA... (sanity check)

Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 77
  1. #11  
    Senior Member Milan S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Lovett View Post
    Peter has it essentially correct, this round wasn't about the sensor. Here is what Jarred said before. I'm confident all Dragon cameras will have a way forward to the next generation of sensors


    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land
    Weapon is a natural progression of our company going from sensor > body > sensor > body. Its the same path we have taken since day one. R1 came along, then we made the new MX sensor. Epic came along with a new body and used the same MX sensor. Then the Dragon sensor came along and it worked with the same body as Epic. Now there is a new body, Weapon, and it follows the same path. Then there will be a new sensor that comes next, and then a new body after that. Rinse and Repeat.
    Red One to Epic upgrade was a leap forward. Dragon to Weapon upgrade is a step sideways.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #12  
    Senior Member Peter Majtan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    3,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Pugh View Post
    Now might be a good time to pull up those quotes to support what you're saying. None of Jarred's quotes you've mentioned allude to any upgrade path from Magnesium Weapon to the future beyond.
    I did say that "I am sure" - as in that this is "what I believe will happen"...
    You don't need eyes to see, You need a vision!
    www.petermajtan.com - www.derylgroup.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #13  
    Senior Member Stephen Lovett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Silicon Valley CA
    Posts
    756
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan S. View Post
    Red One to Epic upgrade was a leap forward. Dragon to Weapon upgrade is a step sideways.

    I hear you Milan, and I think that's the real issue, namely that there is a fairly broad perception that the value provided by weapon isn't as tangible for a large number of owners as the previous body upgrades. Certainly there is less of a change than from RedOne to Epic/Scarlet.

    I'm just not sure yet personally, but it's not like Dragon got worse overnight. If most of us are really honest with ourselves we'd admit the chief obstacle to telling compelling visual stories stopped being the capability of our tools when we got to Epic, or certainly Dragon. Go look at Ivan's piece and tell me that isn't true.

    Further there are some constituents like episodic where the changes like ProRes could be a game changer in the short term.

    There is clearly disappointment that the only option to get to the larger sensor is Carbon Dragon, and I can understand that.

    I think the root problem here was really just timing and communication. I can tell you from having spent most of my career in high tech hardware and software development, that great products are created by people who love what they do and pour everything they have into their work. Sometimes their excitement and passion doesn't translate as well to others as they'd hoped.

    I think expectations were unintentionally set too high, or more likely historical change in the product line has been applicable to a broader portion of the user base.

    Personally I'm not jumping on this right away, I want to understand it more, but I'm not disappointed.

    One more quick edit. I don't know anything that you or others don't know, but given Jarred's quote above, and that the folks at RED care passionately about the moving image, I strongly believe that there will be a new sensor for all in the next iteration.
    Last edited by Stephen Lovett; 04-13-2015 at 06:24 PM. Reason: spelling and grammar
    Uroboros Films Turning Vision Into Reality www.uroborosfilms.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #14  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan S. View Post
    Red One to Epic upgrade was a leap forward. Dragon to Weapon upgrade is a step sideways.
    Exactly. And it was a necessary step to get around all the body-based deficiencies and workflow drawbacks. And sadly, the pricing is such that we have indeed EOL'ed our EPIC DRAGON's as far as any of the new, ergonomic and better modules coming out, and really, any improvements, period.

    Its almost as if we paid for the privilege of being one huge beta test group for RED to finally get its version of ALEXA ready, and then, price it exactly like that.

    I totally did not expect this. Indeed a sad day for red owners, specially the ones who were hoping to get to a body finally that had decent i/o options, dual monitors + hdmi, no blackshading required, XLR audio, low fan noise... really, the BASICS.

    My whatever-it-cost EPIC DRAGON doesn't have these basics, and I can't get them without shelling out atleast 20K more. The future is not here, the future is uncertain.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #15  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Miami Beach, USA
    Posts
    948
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan S. View Post
    Red One to Epic upgrade was a leap forward. Dragon to Weapon upgrade is a step sideways.
    Like Red One M-X to Epic M-X
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #16  
    Senior Member Milan S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Lovett View Post
    I'm just not sure yet personally, but it's not like Dragon got worse overnight. If most of us are really honest with ourselves we'd admit the chief obstacle to telling compelling visual stories stopped being the capability of our tools when we got to Epic, or certainly Dragon. Go look at Ivan's piece and tell me that isn't true.
    The Ivan piece is great but again, we are not all in the same business. Ivan's business is not susceptible to whims of producers and camera market trends like the owners-operators are.
    It's a completely different field.

    I love the Epic Dragon and would be happy to shoot on it for many years but unfortunately I'm not making money on personal projects, it's not the business I'm in.
    My business depends on market trends and Weapon is the new trend.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #17  
    Senior Member Peter Majtan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    3,985
    If you guys want to "dispose off" of your now "end-of-the-line" Dragon Epics, Scarlets and the MG Weapon (if you do get one) - I will give you the GPS coordinates for my "garbage" bin... ;o)

    Peter
    You don't need eyes to see, You need a vision!
    www.petermajtan.com - www.derylgroup.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #18  
    Senior Member Ivan Kovax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    975
    Peter, interesting take. And thanks for making it Japanese friendly for me.

    But realistically, Red really needs to give people the proper information such that they can make an informed financial decision on the upgrade. A lot of people are getting rather antsy. This launch could have been done a whole lot better.

    Right now, the reality is that people are being asked to fork up 20K for an undefined upgrade path in the future, for an upgrade that many people are telling me in private is what they feel the Dragon should have been to begin with. We don't even properly know what weapon is capable of yet.

    The onus is not on us to not flip out, it is on Red to give its loyal customer base enough info to make appropriate decisions. And that info to date is not there. I assume it will come shortlyly as the sheer mass of people asking the same questions is an obvious indicator of that. So best just to wait and see.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #19  
    Member Evan Falbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    89
    I remain skeptical too. They'd have to develop/release modules and accessories for both platforms moving forward to keep Epic/Scarlet alive. Today was all weapon module announcements. Many of which were upgrades to their Epic/Scarlet counterparts. It's hard to believe they would spend the money to keep developing both platforms. Would cause a lot of headaches.

    I'm sure they'll continue to support firmware updates and color science updates as they historically have. Hard to imagine future hardware development for Epic/Scarlet though...perhaps this is where 3rd party development comes in.

    I hope I'm wrong though.
    San Antonio, TX/Shreveport, LA | www.moviesauce.com | @moviesauce | Weapon Helium #06264
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #20  
    Senior Member Donald MJ Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    513
    The problem is the PR - the PR on this seemed off from day one.

    As far as I can see expectations were whipped up to stratospheric heights. All photos with little info, certainly the high cost was kept quiet. Leaving users to spec their dream machine. Whipping everyone into a lather for 2 months or more only to have the release be a expensive new body with little to make the high cost palatable. Hence the shock from a lot of users.

    Poor sods who were encouraged to upgrade to Dragon for Weapon - only to find out its out of reach or not worth grabbing due to the specs.

    The weapon jammed.
    Red One #3**
    Epic-W
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts