Thread: Imitation Games - The New Alexa Mini

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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Conry View Post
    It's so tiring to read all of the constant bashing of other companies every time another camera comes out. More camera choices are good for us!
    Agreed. So much in here seems very defensive for no reason. More options out there, great! I don't understand why people are saying it's copying or an imitation either. I mean, shrink down a camera and what do you get? A small box with a lens mount. Sounds like the obvious to me. Hardly innovation from anyone in that sense.
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  2. #182  
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    Yeah cant believe people have so much time and energy spend for things like this.
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  3. #183  
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    I love both Arri and Red. They are tools, not divinities. If there is just one expensive path from Scarlet to top Weapon I'm seriously thinking of selling it and buying an Amira. If so, I'll perhaps come back to Red later. Like I went back and forth from PC to Mac. We can compare the specs and strategies for days, the only important thing is the result. I love Red resolution and I love Arri colors. Red upgrades are nice, so are Arri unlocking options.
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  4. #184  
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    Here, here Sam, not divinities. We had the same issue with Mac PC , but both are behind. I've always sort of followed the best implementation, Amiga, Acorn, Goeoworks, Opera years ago, Forth processor Misc etc, well ahead of the pack, and good value for money. PC and Mac are a fraction of the processing possible, OS's are less and less a mess (fortunately) as with hardware interfaces. The stuff people follow is mentally diminished, and don't even realise the definition of good or value for money. So be appreciative but keep the tomato sauce for the chips guys. The "Mission" is not over, you'll go broke that way, there is 20 to 30 or so years left in the industry before things slow down and we have to wait for volumetric recording (unless I release it first) for volumetric display.

    Arri color and rendering, ahh, a company that understands image that I imagine are about to have their chain pulled by Red, then we will see how good they are. I am think these coming years will see Red at their peak (but Sony and co will aiming to be ready to be there in coming years).
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  5. #185  
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    But what about a Secret Weapon?

    Where there is a weapon, inevitably there might be a secret weapon, a small mobile unit to maybe replace scarlet or complement it this year or next.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  6. #186  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    I work in broadcast promo, and I'd say over half the shoots coming in are Dragon. RED has definitely made a major impact in this market. My clients care about 4K, and their in-house VFX teams love working in 6K.

    I've also heard casually that a number of executives are very concerned about being "future proof" - its not about being 4K ready now, it's about having entire seasons available in 4K...in the future (on demand, etc). For the first time, I'm hearing people question or even consider banning shooting on Alexa. One of my clients major shows just shot on F65.

    So - Alexa out the box may look great. No denying it. I still believe with a good colorist...Dragon can match....but at much higher resolution.

    But from an owner/operator standpoint, it's no contest - $25K vs $50k and up? Dragon and Alexa serve two completely different markets - OWNER and RENTAL.

    However - as more and more jobs go MEDIUM sized - my gut tells me we're going to be seeing more and more RED's onsets. Both my gaffer and one of our main operators have both told me they're seeing WAY more Dragon's on sets these days...(in NYC).
    True, for commercial work, I find myself using Red more than Alexa. But TV / Feature it's been almost exclusively Arri. When we did our ABC tests, we had one of the best colorists in NYC trying to get the best. The Dragon was still a notch off the Arri. I've a feeling though things may chance once the Dragon Chip gets optimized. At some point, Arri will have to deliver true 4k.
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  7. #187  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini View Post
    when you get up in resolution, extra resolution mattes less and less, after 4k I believe it gets pretty moot to the poor vision of most people. However levels matter a lot. The Arri wins, particular because the dragon came in lower than planned, being retrified in weapon. However, from the few Sony films I have taken notice of, they where good for a bright and cheerful (colorful) rendering, but the clipping etc on the sensor is pretty obvious even in a blind test,so they might have been sitting there think, that Sony camera again. The Arrive is a bit obvious as well, leaving the dragon the odd one out. They probably have all seen footage from each, making blind testing hard meaning they can favor which ever they liked before the test. The Sony look I've seen is good for low end and high contrast bright colorful productiins, but I expect their sensor rendering has improved a lot over the last 3 or so years too since the film of my last examinatiin (particularly the latest generation).

    Sony has taken a step up recently, and will again with what they are doing. But you need the very latest camera I think.
    For what it's worth, they were not that technically savvy to discern camera brands. Somewhat newbies to the moviemaking game but smart enough to breakdown why they like one image over another. What it came down to was the sublety, gradients and color detail in the skin. Also, the accuracy in the color charts. I truly wanted the Epic to win out as I felt the small camera body would've really helped the production. I plan on doing a similar test again when the Weapon comes out. As for Sony, the flesh tones were truly a few steps behind both cameras. It just wasn't a pleasant look and we really tried. It was incredibly difficult without power windows to get accurate skin and charts at the same time. I've just finished watching Season 1 of the blacklist and it bears this out. Irony is I worked on a Mustang commercial tie in with the Blacklist with Ryan Eggold but we shot it on Dragon. Came out better looking than the show.
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  8. #188  
    Senior Member Milan S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam karr View Post
    [Cameras] are tools, not divinities.
    Bravo. That should be the Reduser guiding motto. One can dream.
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  9. #189  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Wilson View Post
    For what it's worth, they were not that technically savvy to discern camera brands. Somewhat newbies to the moviemaking game but smart enough to breakdown why they like one image over another. What it came down to was the sublety, gradients and color detail in the skin. Also, the accuracy in the color charts. I truly wanted the Epic to win out as I felt the small camera body would've really helped the production. I plan on doing a similar test again when the Weapon comes out. As for Sony, the flesh tones were truly a few steps behind both cameras. It just wasn't a pleasant look and we really tried. It was incredibly difficult without power windows to get accurate skin and charts at the same time. I've just finished watching Season 1 of the blacklist and it bears this out. Irony is I worked on a Mustang commercial tie in with the Blacklist with Ryan Eggold but we shot it on Dragon. Came out better looking than the show.
    Yep, that is s why I finally liked the Dragon prototype image, but then it did not turn out that way. Im the only one Ive seen here, from mnemory, that called the progress on skin renbering in particular. And yes on the Sony aswell, that sort of pixel format has got to compromise skin detail. But if the Sony sensor has an regular pattern on another camera it should be better, as long as they don't have too large and I alaising. But Sony is readying 3 color pixels, and holographic filming. unfortunately these single pixerl color schemes has compromises.
    An explorer explores new ideas and things, but somebody stuck in mud, complains.
    - But the explorer complains about how much better the territory he has discovered is instead.

    -Since when has denying that the possible is possible been reason? Such is the life of some skepticism.
    -Normalcy involves what is realistically possible, not just what you say.
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  10. #190  
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    I just got word from the Alexa Mini pre-order. $4,500 non-refundable deposit. $45,000 for the body. (Not sure what's included in that $45K, but it seems like a full Alexa Mini setup is gonna clock-in around $50K-$60K.)
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