Thread: Is it possible to retain raw .R3D all the way through FCP-X / Resolve round-trip?

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  1. #1 Is it possible to retain raw .R3D all the way through FCP-X / Resolve round-trip? 
    Senior Member Paul Kalbach's Avatar
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    Resolve newbie here, so maybe dumb question. I edited in FCP-X with .R3D files, exported XML into Resolve for grading and noise reduction with Neat Video OFX plugin. Now I want to send it back to FCP-X for further work, keeping the media as 5k .R3D files. To render out the grading and noise reduction in the Deliver page, I see no option for retaining the .R3D codec. What's the best approach here?
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  2. #2  
    A raw file is not a viewable color image so it cannot be color-corrected until it has been converted into a color image.
    David Mullen, ASC
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  3. #3  
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    What do you want to retain in RAW parameter ?

    R
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  4. #4  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Resolve and Final Cut Pro X don't communicate in this way, though what you can explore is the Adobe Premiere Pro/SpeedGrade/Media Encoder pipeline as this work flow allows that.

    Additionally, if you can manage final export through Resolve, just pushave your .R3Ds through it for finish.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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  5. #5  
    But how can you "push out" a graded raw file that is still a raw file, except as metadata? A raw file is not a color image so by definition it can't be color-corrected and still be a raw file. You can color-correct a file converted to color, save those settings as metadata and conform the raw files to the EDL, but the raw files won't have correction baked into them. Raw is not something you master TO but FROM.
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    Senior Member Solomon Nero's Avatar
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    If you use Resolve without using complicated moving motion tracked objects or power windows, you can export LUTS to import into any editor to apply to your R3D footage...but it is a very limiting approach.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Resolve and Final Cut Pro X don't communicate in this way, though what you can explore is the Adobe Premiere Pro/SpeedGrade/Media Encoder pipeline as this work flow allows that.

    Additionally, if you can manage final export through Resolve, just pushave your .R3Ds through it for finish.
    No, Adobe pipeline doesn't really allow for that. The moment you decompress/debayer/gamma encode/grade something, it stops being RAW. As you well know, even with massive help from Adobe "Gone Girl" was graded from delivered DPX files.
    In case of PPro/Speedgrade/Ppro you can't really grade, while staying RAW. And frankly, as again in case of "Gone Girl" there is no need for it. With PPro/Speedgrade combo you just will be creating simple metadata adjustments, but you'll have no real grading with nodes or layers or windows etc. The ONLY system, that actually allows retention of full metadata, while applying grades is Baselight. You can do one light in FLIP or Daylight, edit in Avid or FCP7 while grading or adjusting them in Baselight Editions, use the metadata in NUKE and finally bring it all into a Baselight, while retaining all your intermediate grades and all the original metadata (not in the composited EXR material obviously). No other system can do that.
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  8. #8  
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    As long as the material used for post are debayered correctly, with the right color temperature, ISO, color space, and gamma space, any good colorist can still get a great image out of it in ProRes 444, DPX, or any mildly-compressed format. Keeping it in Raw accomplishes very little in my experience, but I have had occasions where I've had to get the client to redo a half-dozen shots because their exposure or color temperature was wrong. But that can also happen when you're using the actual R3D files for color.

    There's so many visual effects, dissolves, repositions and stuff that go on nowadays, you pretty much can't use camera files through the entire pipeline without a lot of trouble. Bear in mind that Social Network, Gone Girl, and quite a few major Red features chose not to use R3Ds during every stage. But they used them when it was important, and they did stay on top of settings, resolution, and image quality.

    My preference is usually to work from RedColor3 / RedLogFilm, but to me there's no difference in range between a ProRes 444 made from the R3D or the R3D itself. The only exception would be if there are blow-ups involved, and then I usually advise them to drop in the R3D shot. It all depends on available time and budget, and sometimes, it's more about the schedule than the money.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  9. #9  
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    I did a television series in FCPX using .R3Ds where all the grading was done in RCX Pro. Power windows and noise reduction were done in fcpx although neither were needed much at all. Can work great for some projects. Any changes to the .R3Ds show up straight away in FCPX.
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  10. #10  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Oh sorry gents. Didn't see the bit that he wanted to "render out to .R3D" after all that.

    So to Paul, to answer that. There's no way to write a .R3D after doing all that. You need to go to a delivery or intermediate codec once you're all done.


    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    No, Adobe pipeline doesn't really allow for that. The moment you decompress/debayer/gamma encode/grade something, it stops being RAW. As you well know, even with massive help from Adobe "Gone Girl" was graded from delivered DPX files.
    In case of PPro/Speedgrade/Ppro you can't really grade, while staying RAW. And frankly, as again in case of "Gone Girl" there is no need for it. With PPro/Speedgrade combo you just will be creating simple metadata adjustments, but you'll have no real grading with nodes or layers or windows etc. The ONLY system, that actually allows retention of full metadata, while applying grades is Baselight. You can do one light in FLIP or Daylight, edit in Avid or FCP7 while grading or adjusting them in Baselight Editions, use the metadata in NUKE and finally bring it all into a Baselight, while retaining all your intermediate grades and all the original metadata (not in the composited EXR material obviously). No other system can do that.
    Outside of my confusion from the initial post SpeedGrade excepts .R3Ds and can directly link back and forthe to Premiere Pro CC. All staying with the .R3D. You don't have nodes, but you do have layers and windows. And it has curves now, which is somewhat new.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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