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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Manufacturers, companies, and distributors of products must be Reduser Sponsors to advertise on the site.
    Yeah, I meant once I become a Sponsor. I haven't been able to find out exactly what the rules are for that do you know where those are posted?
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Sort of an aside here but it occurs to me that the typical group buy structure is a little backwards. The usual thing here on RU has been to give deeper discounts the more units that are sold; a "tiered" system of incentive. But, people don't usually act for the benevolent interests of the group over their own, so the idea of deeper discounts with more units doesn't really provide any incentive for the individual to act early. It seems to me it would make more sense to provide deeper discounts to those willing to commit early to provide incentive to the individual.

    To use an example...

    the typical group buy says that if we, as a group, commit to 10 units we pay perhaps $1000 (of a $1100 "normal" price). But, at 20 units we play $900 and at 30 units we pay $800. This is theoretically good for sellers as it provides more total profit even if margins shrink on each unit sold as each tier is reached. But it doesn't provide incentive to any individual to absolutely commit early.

    As an individual, I may think that the $800 level is a good deal but am less excited at $1000. Lower is always better when it comes to price. But, I have absolutely no control over whether we can achieve that $800 level other than to pledge my own support. At that point, I might plan to abort if we don't achieve the $800 price or, one alternative is to simply wait to gauge interest until it looks like we might get to the lower pricing. No matter what, interest just isn't going to be as high at the higher price as at the lower price. This may be one of the reasons these group buys with prescribed discount levels fall apart at the end when actual deposits or payments are due. This ends messy for both buyer and seller.

    To me, it makes more sense to reverse it. Either have the first x people to commit get the best discount with it going up slightly from there as more people sign on. That is, say the first 10 get the $800 level with the next 10 at $900 and everyone else at the $1000 price. Or, so as not to "punish" those who don't make it into the first group because of the rush of orders, perhaps the seller provides a window of time; within 5 days the price is $800, then for 5 more days, $900, then an additional X days until the end of the GB at $1000.

    My own thoughts here are based on my personal experience in looking at a GB where I like the large volume discount but it looks unlikely it'll get there. So, although I have currently indicated my interest, I am unlikely to follow through if the bigger discounts aren't reached. If there are several like me out there, then the end result will be a lot of mess at the end regarding pricing. If several folks drop out at the very end, will the indicated discount still hold - with the seller taking a hit? Or, will the price go back up, possibly causing more to drop out in a sort of "bank run" effect? At the very least, someone is going to be disappointed... or downright pissed.

    Not sure if my scenario can be fit into the new GB rules but I am certainly interested in peoples' thoughts on the matter.
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member Carey Lee Coffey's Avatar
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    I don't think that would go over too well Terry. I, for one, would not want to pay more just because I showed up late to the party. Not everyone checks Reduser everyday. I don't want to pay more than the next guy, in the same group buy, just because I was on set that day and unable to check Reduser.
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    Terry. Not a bad idea considering how well that system works in Kickstarter.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey Lee Coffey View Post
    I don't think that would go over too well Terry. I, for one, would not want to pay more just because I showed up late to the party. Not everyone checks Reduser everyday. I don't want to pay more than the next guy, in the same group buy, just because I was on set that day and unable to check Reduser.
    Carey - then you might favor the idea of a time frame for getting the better discounts, as I describe above. Your comments don't address the issue of disincentives for those "on-the-fence." You know all too well how messy things can get when people want to start dropping out late in the game. How do you make it work for BOTH the seller and the buyer; creating the proper incentives for both.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member Carey Lee Coffey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
    Carey - then you might favor the idea of a time frame for getting the better discounts, as I describe above. Your comments don't address the issue of disincentives for those "on-the-fence." You know all too well how messy things can get when people want to start dropping out late in the game. How do you make it work for BOTH the seller and the buyer; creating the proper incentives for both.

    The same problem exists... people trickle in over time. I get new sales trickling in daily over a long period of time. People on-the-fence should be in, with the freedom to drop out at any time without consequence. The product itself should be incentive enough to stay in the group buy. You should be free to drop out before, during and after the GB and even after the product ships. My 2 cents.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey Lee Coffey View Post
    The same problem exists... people trickle in over time. I get new sales trickling in daily over a long period of time. People on-the-fence should be in, with the freedom to drop out at any time without consequence. The product itself should be incentive enough to stay in the group buy. You should be free to drop out before, during and after the GB and even after the product ships. My 2 cents.

    Then I'll ask directly - in the group buy you've arranged, will those who remain in be guaranteed the price level attained by the preliminary commitments? Or, will the final price level be determined by the actual orders/deposits (which would mean the buyers wouldn't know their actual price until after they made their deposits). How does that work in reality?
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey Lee Coffey View Post
    I don't think that would go over too well Terry. I, for one, would not want to pay more just because I showed up late to the party. Not everyone checks Reduser everyday. I don't want to pay more than the next guy, in the same group buy, just because I was on set that day and unable to check Reduser.
    But that's kinda how Reduser works. It's not just the 3rd party group buys, Red itself is huge about early-adoption benefits. I just sorta see that as part of the deal around here.
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  9. #29  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Tresch View Post
    Business is always made with the same intention : making money.
    I don't see the "charity spirit" in a group buy.

    Pat
    flip it around Pat,

    Reduser is is a targeted user base who can use their buying power to attract deals from manufacturers. Manufacturers (business) want to sell and make money and put as many products into people's hands as possible.

    You advertise your fanplate with every post you make and in just about every thread about audio recording and fan noise. so your business might be generating sales and making money on Redusers (I don't think its for any other camera) from REDusers.

    But I don't think anyone has asked you to advertise officially on the site?

    Because, you know, the bottom line is making money, right?

    Maybe be you should have a little group buy and offer a discount.


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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Carey Lee Coffey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
    Then I'll ask directly - in the group buy you've arranged, will those who remain in be guaranteed the price level attained by the preliminary commitments? Or, will the final price level be determined by the actual orders/deposits (which would mean the buyers wouldn't know their actual price until after they made their deposits). How does that work in reality?
    Oh, I see what you're getting at. I've always hit my target in every group buy I've ever done so it never really occurred to me to think about what would happen if I didn't. I'm sure that most manufacturers would agree to honor the discount, even if some people drop out. We are, after all, bringing them a whole bunch of new customers.

    The discounts they decide to give us based on number of units sold is a totally arbitrary number anyway.
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