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04-22-2008, 05:42 PM
Right oh Mike,
As Stephen said in some cases you would be expected to provide professional cine grade lenses as that is what the DP, operator and 1st AC want. But you can shoot quality product with still camera optics though it might not be as easy. So far as consitentcy (sp?) of quality the better made lenses can somewhat take care of that problem.
04-22-2008, 06:12 PM
Don't know if this test has been posted but that new 14-24 Nikon looks pretty darn good.
The second test is just to show how good a still camera lens can be. The Contax 21, be it only f2.8, probally has no competion no matter what other lens is out there.
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/nikon...14_24mm_a.html
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/nikon...424_21mm1.html
04-22-2008, 06:29 PM
Have you thought about the Zeiss Variable Primes? They are very underrated lenses, very sharp and fast (T2.2) for a zoom. 3 lenses, VP1 (16-30), VP2 (29-60), VP3 (55-105) They cover Super 35, don't breathe much, and are nice and contrasty. I'd choose them over the T.2.1 primes of the day (early 1990's) Larger than primes, smaller than zooms, likely handholdable with a light camera like the Red. They have nice large scales too.
Their relative unpopularity probably makes them a good candidate for a rental house purchase; a CSC or a Clairmont might be willing to let a set go because they mostly sit on the shelf. In a tight lens market, they might be a bargain if you can find a set.
The discipline of using specific focal lengths is a good craftsman's habit. But of course if you're REALLY disciplined you can stick with the same focal lengths on a zoom.
I'd keep an open mind. If you're buying lenses for your own use as DP, or you own the production company, you can think outside the box a bit and not feel like Master Primes or S4s are a "must have".
But I also believe that good cine lenses (primes or zooms) will have a mechanical and quality advantage over still lenses for everyday use. For specialty use (telephoto, fisheye, whatever) that gets used fewer days, still lenses offer some compelling choices.
Isn't it nice to have choices? ;)
Cheers,
Harry
04-22-2008, 07:05 PM
This is what I like so much about RedUser. You guys really take time to help and I appreciate every moment of your time.
Picking up on your collective thoughts, I'm assuming that it is NOT wise to mix lens makers on a "film" project ie, don't use Cooke for one shot, Nikon on another, Zeiss, etc. My assumption is that the "feel" produced by the lens' attributes can't be changed in post. Therefore, if you're shooting two cameras, you need double the lenses or you will eat up a lot of $$$ in post, even if it can be fixed. Your insights will be appreciated.
Tail Ends
04-22-2008, 07:14 PM
Harry, I have not even heard of these variable primes. I'm not married to any manufacturer, though most of the guys I've talked to seem to think Cooke is best for my needs (ie features and some documentaries, people oriented, no run and gun, few long horizons, etc.)
As I said above, one of my big concerns is consistancy of image througout the shoot. To achieve this goal, I've been assuming that I need all the same lenses. And to achieve this, I need to buy pretty much new material. If this is not the case, then you and all the other guys helping on this thread may be saving me a lot of money.
I anxiously await more comments.
Tail Ends
04-22-2008, 08:09 PM
Variable Primes handheld? Harry, have you been chomping steroids? Those things are huge and HEAVY. Beautiful glass, but c'mon--they're not for handheld.
04-23-2008, 04:36 AM
I'm a MAN, baby!
;)
I just figure since we're all used to cameras that weigh 30 lbs. and lenses that weigh 3 lbs., then using a camera that weighs 10 lbs. with a 10 lb. lens would not be a big deal.
And the CG of a Red is more adjustable than a film camera since the viewfinder is not fixed in any one position. You could conceivably end up with the camera entirely behind your shoulder and the middle of the lens next to your ear.
Not that I've ever tried it...
If he's got $50,000- $100,000 for lenses than a full set of new primes is out.
Maybe there is a combination of lenses, like a set of VP's and a few choice Ultra Primes to fill in.
Cheers,
Harry
04-23-2008, 06:30 AM
Yes Nils, good point.
I myself have no experience with the Elites, although I know they've been used on many projects, large and small, by top DPs, and generally get good reviews.
There have been several threads here regarding the availability, sourcing, serviceability, and pricing of these lenses, so do a quick search.
What I have not seen is an Elite vs. MP vs. S4 test with stills like Evin's excellent shoot out from earlier this year.
Tails Ends DID say that he's not married to one brand over another, so if they perform to his liking and they're available in his time frame then they might prove an excellent choice.
Tail Ends, here's a link to a rental house that features the VPs:
http://rentacam.ru/eng/index.php?area=article&id_art=58
I agree that you should try to stay with one brand, even one type (i.e. all Ultra Primes vs a mix of UP and Super Speeds) although we mix lenses with great regularity on TV commercials and series. Features set the bar higher (due to projection) but primes, zooms, and even brands get mixed up on the same project here too. The fact that you're using the lenses with a digital and not photochemical system means that there are lots of ways to "match" the lenses later for flare, color, and contrast (every Red project by definition includes a DI, however rudimentary)
So if the Elites look good, then maybe get a set of them and a used Cooke zoom to compliment the set...
Cheers,
Harry
04-23-2008, 11:33 PM
Harry, thanks for the input. I tried to follow up on your Elite link, but all I got was Moscow, a bit far to go for a rental I think. Site didn't have any "partners" listed, but maybe it's under reconstruction. I'll do some more exploring over the next few days. thanks for thinking of me anyway.
Tail Ends
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Originally Posted by harryclark
