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  1. #1 3d post workflow 
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    Is there a way , let's say with a pc with premiere and cineform and speedgrade,

    or a macpc with fcp, crimson, and color; to do editing for 3d movie playout to éx 4k projectors without having to own a 5 or 600 k quantel system. Or would this productions be off a much lower quality when they had to achieve the same result.

    Is it sufficient to just edit one stream and then conform the other together, or how does this precisely works out ???

    I know speedgrade has some stereoscopic features(dualview), as well as a scratch has single view, but are you really going to need a quantel by now to get this done on a commercial base or do you think some nice applications will enter the market as there seems to be a much higher demand coming as well from us te create new experiences and possibilities as from the cinema chains trying to get people to the theatre again.
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    Senior Member MichaelP's Avatar
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    There are several issues with editing stereoscopic that need to be considered. One can certainly edit stereoscopic using one eye only, but that adds to the process since you have to do a conform, check the pace of the cuts, then make changes in 2D, then back to 3D etc. That can add to the process.

    Viewing the stereo is the bigger challenge. There are new plasmas coming out that will allow for stereo viewing, but the left/right eye streams need to be combined in some fashion to meet the type of viewer using - for example the plasmas use a checkerboard combination with shutter sync glasses for viewing.

    Of course color correction needs to be done carefully to ensure proper balance between both eyes, VFX etc add more complexity. There are also tools in the these systems to play with convergence points, etc to set the objects farther or closer to the viewer - all of these are subjective decisions that need to be made.

    I did a stereoscopic editing demonstration last week in LA with some technology that we are researching for the creative offline editorial - basically 2D view while editing, but hitting play will allow for stereo viewing. This helps solve the first issue of pacing, etc.

    A lot of this is still in development - many facilities will have suggestions to fit both their workflow as well as yours.

    Michael
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    I know speedgrade has some stereoscopic features(dualview), as well as a scratch has single view,...
    Single view?

    In one of our suites at the Renaissance right now, we are demonstrating live stereo playback. With an NVidia 4600/5600 SDI, Left Eye goes out LinkA, and Right Eye goes out LinkB. Stereo.

    We have several customers doing this right now...

    Lucas
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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    I did a stereoscopic editing demonstration last week in LA with some technology that we are researching for the creative offline editorial - basically 2D view while editing, but hitting play will allow for stereo viewing. This helps solve the first issue of pacing, etc. ...
    Hey Michael,

    While SCRATCH is certainly *not* an offline editor, this is how we do stereo right now. Viewing on the conform timeline is 2D, playback is 3D.

    Lucas
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  5. #5  
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    Sorry Luki to put here some wrong information.
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  6. #6  
    Jeff Olm (stereo colorist) will have an online course about Scratch at fxphd.com
    He will cover about stereo grading as well.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member MichaelP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luki View Post
    Hey Michael,

    While SCRATCH is certainly *not* an offline editor, this is how we do stereo right now. Viewing on the conform timeline is 2D, playback is 3D.
    Excellent... now we will give you twice the metadata... ;)
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    Is it sufficient to just edit one stream and then conform the other together, or how does this precisely works out ???
    The way people currently deal with it is indeed to cut with one eye only and then online in stereo. This is not ideal as a stereoscopic movie has to be cut very differently from a traditional one.

    Movies workflows for films like U2 3D rely on a lot of inhouse tools to deal with stereoscopic issues. Standard tools for these processes are just now becoming available.

    In SpeedGrade you work with a stereo timeline. If you have set up folder structures for left eye/right eye, conforming from an EDL will conform both eyes automatically. While SpeedGrade is no replacement for an editor, you can easily make some changes to the edit in the SpeedGrade timeline and will see stereo while you are doing it.

    The advantage of the stereo timeline is that by default all operations affect both eyes at the same time. So you don't have to copy grades to the other eye for example. When you want to specifically adjust one eye only, you can do that as well of course. All other solutions that I am aware of require the colorist to manually keep track of the changes to each eye and apply them to the other eye. In SpeedGrade this is simpler because you deal with one timeline, not two.

    One of the most important operations that you have to do in stereo space is aligning the channels in terms of rotation and vertical position. You also may want to adjust the interocular distance by moving the left and right eyes away from each other or closer together. These are all operations you can do directly in SpeedGrade. However there are also other operations such as correcting lens flares (bad if it only shows up in one eye), adjusting convergence and compensating for lens distortion that require additional tools.

    Generally speaking you can go very far in a current SpeedGrade workflow, a reason why we decided to make stereo standard in all 2008 SpeedGrades. But you still have a big learning curve about stereo in general and you will need to invest in addtional tools for dealing with these other issues. The tools alone will not be the key to good stereo.

    A great example of a "low budget" stereo workflow is "Dark Country" which is currently in post at ParadiseFX with Max Penner's crew. Max' experience is what makes this possible, regardless of the tools they use.

    Big ticket productions usually rely on a workflow that involves multiple tools. U2 3D for example used Scratch for initial conforming, SpeedGrade DI for color correction and many proprietary 3ality tools for doing the 3D magic.

    I am confident that over the course of 2008, there will evolve a powerful stereo workflow for editing, DI and compositing. BTW, I think that the Quantel solution is overpriced and overhyped. But I am biased of course.

    I think stereo is a great opportunity and will transform our movie experience. It will be a bumpy road with lots of "in your face" stuff (remember surround sound in the 80s, when you were constantly dragged out of the story because of weird sound effects), but it will slowly evolve into the standard way we look at movies. It won't save the cinemas though (they have to make the cinema experience worth while, they won't be saved by technology). I already have a "3D ready" TV set, so I doubt cinemas will have a monopoly on stereo experience.

    My colleague Patrick did a nice talk at HPA this year, we have it online at:

    http://www.iridasmagazine.com/2008/hpa/

    We also show stereo at our booth at NAB if you are in Vegas right now.

    Lin
    Lin Sebastian Kayser | Adobe Pro Video Group Engineering Director | Founder of IRIDAS
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