Thread: Dragon OLPF in Epic?

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1 Dragon OLPF in Epic? 
    Senior Member Peter Strietmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    1,370
    Could the new dragon OLPF help an epic (or scarlet) in terms of IR issues?
    A Peter Strietmann
    plaidass1@mac.com
    [url]https://peterstrietmann.com

    "Read or bleed people, learn or burn."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member Zeb B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    In The Moment
    Posts
    4,937
    -Zeb
    FAA 333 Drone Ace
    6K Drone Worldwide
    Underwater Shooter
    RED in Hawaii w/Operator
    www.Stock8K.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Florence, Italy
    Posts
    9,998
    I have asked about this a few times and everyone has been kinda mum.

    only red knows, I think that this should be the OLPF in all their cameras going forward (if that is even possible). I think this would also dramatically improve the light pass through onto the sensor on EPIC and SCarlet as it is an optical piece of glass that filters certain wavelengths of light and aids significantly in limiting and eliminating moire and pattern noise.

    That's the job of the OLPF (optical low pass filter) putting that in for people who don't know what it stands for. It filters light after it passes through the lens and before it hits the sensor and protects the sensor because it's made of glass, so it doesn't leave the sensor open to dust etc.

    generally each OLPF is sensor specific and red has changed them a few times over the years for better image results, etc. so it is hard to gauge how specifically tuned this is to dragon, that it can not be used on epics.

    If there is one REDuser who would try swapping them, I think it would be John Marchant, as I think the work he did with epic and bw photography actually led to some of the development of the EPIC monochrome.

    My guess would be that RED is not even testing this with epic right now, just tuning it perfectly for Dragon.

    Battistella
    "Colors are the wounds of light."
    -William Blake
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Toronto & Vancouver
    Posts
    3,685
    Something tells me even if they could, they wouldn't (it'd be a lot of hassle and it'd breathe more life into MX)… It'd likely be cheaper to get a new OLPF (which could possibly give better highlight performance [phil said 1.3 stops on Dragon?!] or at the very least some alexa-OLPF-like mojo) than the cost of IRNDs over Regular NDs… added benefit being its behind the lens so it'd be equal across all lenses.

    Are OLPFs user serviceable? Maybe someone with a dragon could pop it in an MX and see what it does to the image.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Florence, Italy
    Posts
    9,998
    Mike,

    how fast can you say, "void your dragon warranty", three times. :)

    Jim once spoke about user interchangeable OLPF, but any OLPF change requires a clean room. Even if the part itself might be inexpensive, the whole thought of doing an OLPF change out service on Epic could probably never come at a user serviceable price.

    like I don't think many people would pay 5000$ for an OLPF upgrade, it would have to be worth REDs while.

    with more and more red one MX cameras out of warranty and relatively cheap, I think you might see those kinds of user mods happening and maybe even some hackinred's, we might see them in new epic and scarlet cameras but probably not an upgrade.

    again, just speculation but me, which is probably 100% incorrect or unlikely.

    battistella
    "Colors are the wounds of light."
    -William Blake
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    330
    I think the new OLPF has been placed deeper inside the sensorbox, making it incompatible with the current epic... they would need to design one for Epic MX. probably not gonna happen. @David The F55 OLPF can be changed by users themselves. No clean room required.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    10,943
    The OLPF on Dragon is in fact user replaceable. I have no ideas what Red has planned, but this new Dragon OLPF is purely designed for Dragon. Also Red HQ required calibration is necessary no matter what as there's some under the hood stuff that needs to get updated.

    One thing that is interesting that I recently learned is that part of the reason the OLPF has some distance between it and the sensor is to minimize the appearance of potential dust/particles that can get inside the sensor box.

    As for the future of Mysterium-X getting a new OLPF, tuned color science, and calibration I have no idea. The sensor itself is part of this equation.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________
    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    2X RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Florence, Italy
    Posts
    9,998
    I just like the fact the new one is green. :)

    phil. I think at this point you would know better than anyone else. I guess the sizes are different and this OLPF would have to be made to fit and tested for MX. If it could improve the thousands of epics and Scarlets that will remain "undragonized" then that would be cool, but I doubt that is a priority at this moment.

    Battistella
    "Colors are the wounds of light."
    -William Blake
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member D Fuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    2,038
    An important job for the OLPF - really it's primary job - is to attenuate the high frequencies that cause moire. To do that effectively takes a different design for each pixel density. Since MX and Dragon have different pixel densities, swapping the two would have less-than-optimal results. So what you are really talking about here is designing a completely new OLPF for MX.

    Would that be worth it? I don't know, but that's a different question than this thread has been asking.
    David Fuller
    AirStream Pictures
    Auburn & Portland, ME
    www.airstream.pictures
    EPIC-M Dragon #1053
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Florence, Italy
    Posts
    9,998
    David,

    Great at point about pixel densities because it's all about light dispersion and these sensors are very different.

    It might be worth it if the R&D in dragon OLPF can somehow carry over to the epic scarlet line (which I'm sure they will still sell) so maybe it only makes sense for any new camera in that line. But how much can really be developed for last generation technology.

    I find a 1/8 dig icon on the EPIC MX really does the trick in most shooting scenarios if you want to flatten things out a bit and roll off the highlights a bit.

    Battistella
    "Colors are the wounds of light."
    -William Blake
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts