Thread: Davinci resolve verus Scratch

Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 41 to 50 of 50
  1. #41  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    11,485
    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    So, about the remote grading feature. It starts like an old joke: How many colorists does it take to grade something? If it takes more than one, count me out.
    Ooof. I 100% agree. There was a brief moment years ago where we attempted to try three colorists on one superhero film by dividing up scenes (very much against my wishes), but it just resulted in chaos. I ended up regrading the other work quickly. After that it was always one colorist per project. Too many intangible factors and also with client review and notes coming in it's best to simplify it down to one "tube".
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
    ________________________________
    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #42  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,904
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Ooof. I 100% agree. There was a brief moment years ago where we attempted to try three colorists on one superhero film by dividing up scenes (very much against my wishes), but it just resulted in chaos. I ended up regrading the other work quickly. After that it was always one colorist per project. Too many intangible factors and also with client review and notes coming in it's best to simplify it down to one "tube".
    There is nothing wrong with a colorist having an assistant. That is pretty much a standard set up, because at the end of a day, the colorist still calling the shots. The assistant mainly preps the project, keeps track of the material and frequently does the color matching based on colorist grades and directions. But having more than one colorist in a session makes no sense…
    Jake Blackstone
    Colorist
    Los Angeles
    MOD Color Web Site
    Demo Reel
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #43  
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Montreal - Toronto - NYC
    Posts
    1,706
    Jake, I agree with a lot of what you say but not all software are equal in terms of rendering quality, just because they are all float. They each handle various functions using their own unique math. for example, Resolve's HSl, for now, is a lot noisier than other platforms doing presumably the same thing (Speedgrade's is much cleaner, for example) , and the way LUTs are interpolated between data points is very different in each app, and each will result in a slightly different look from the same LUT applied to the same image. I do like Resolve's LUT implementation.

    Curves too - Resolve recently greatly improved the math behind their curves, and things like 'Hue Vs' curves now show a lot less noise - that would not have been possible if everything was "just the same" in terms of rending quality.

    Scratch has some the best curves math I have seen. If just that saves 40 hours of work on one project, you just paid back your $5000, maybe more.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #44  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by Cüneyt Kaya View Post
    i would take resolve and the easy dcp plug in instead of scratch.
    but if the 5k doesnt matter i would take scratch plus easy dcp stand alone. actually i really
    like the conforming abilities and grading tools of scratch.
    but on a normal budget peoject, or a self financed feature film i would
    go straight to a posthouse, because i think trying to ride as few horses as possible with
    one ass is a good idea. let the experts ride their dedicated horses :)
    although...in a low budget film (festival/pre distribution) why spend the 5-10k on post house color correction? Especially, when the studios usually require a regrade as part of the deliverable checklist upon acquisition.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #45  
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Montreal - Toronto - NYC
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Idris View Post
    although...in a low budget film (festival/pre distribution) why spend the 5-10k on post house color correction? Especially, when the studios usually require a regrade as part of the deliverable checklist upon acquisition.
    Because otherwise your project will look like a Canadian film and no one will buy it or even want to watch it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #46  
    Senior Member Bill Sepaniak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
    Hi Daniel.
    Are you in any way connected or working for Assimilate? If you are, you need to disclose it. ...
    While I don't presume to speak for Daniel, it certainly appears that he does. See:

    http://www.assimilateinc.com/contact

    ________________________________
    Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
    “… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

    Leitaxed Zeiss Lenses:

    CY 21/2.8
    ZF 28/2.0
    CY 35-70/3.4
    CY 50/1.4
    ZF100/2.0
    CY135/2.8

    Nikon Lenses:
    G 14-24/2.8
    G 24-70/2.8
    D 80-200/2.8

    Tokina Lenses:

    11-16/2.8
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #47  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,523
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Ooof. I 100% agree. There was a brief moment years ago where we attempted to try three colorists on one superhero film by dividing up scenes (very much against my wishes), but it just resulted in chaos. I ended up regrading the other work quickly. After that it was always one colorist per project. Too many intangible factors and also with client review and notes coming in it's best to simplify it down to one "tube".
    I would say that while this is often true, the fact remains that many, many projects at what is arguably the most successful DI company in the industry are done by having one "supervising colorist" who sets looks on most of the scenes in the picture, and a team of at least 2 (sometimes more) other colorists who then carry out those decisions for the rest of the picture. One could say that this is really the product of one colorist because all of the creative decisions are the product of that one colorist, but the reality is that the movie is "graded" by multiple colorists (even though the supervising colorist ultimately does a bit of a "polish pass" on the final picture - and he's really, really fast.......).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #48  
    <disclosure - I do a lot of stuff. One of those things is do work for ASSIMILATE>

    I have not been on Reduser much recently for the same reason that I completely unsubscribed from all CML lists - too much arguing and bickering and not enough facts and sane discussion. For that same reason, I’ve avoided jumping into this thread, but feel it’s necessary to point out a few things:


    Jake - you are an effective and passionate advocate for Resolve. And that’s cool. I like passion for a product. And your *opinion* is just as valid as anyone’s.


    But you don’t know SCRATCH. You don't if the VFX capabilities of SCRATCH are “limited,” because you’re not a SCRATCH artist. And you don’t know if it’s “quick,” because… you’re not a SCRATCH artist. When presenting capabilities, stick to what you know, and tell us what Resolve can and cannot do. Everything else is an opinion. <insert old joke about opinions and a***oles>


    As one example, dozens of vfx shots on “A Haunting in Connecticut” were done completely on SCRATCH. Not simple stuff. For instance, SCRATCH has an integrated bicubic deformation tool trackable in 3D space and available across multiple 3D layers. That is fully integrated into the color and plugin tools as well. So for instance - you can apply a stack of plugins on color layers, and then do a bicubic deformation of one of those color layers tracked to another one. Good for stuff like making a ghost appear to be influenced by the textures and geometry of a background layer.


    I don’t know if Resolve can do that or not… because I’m not a Resolve guy. <Jake - that's your cue.>

    But I can certainly introduce you to a lot of SCRATCH artists who look at it as a reasonable compositing tool for the kind of work they do.


    A little explanation of the Remote function:


    It is 100% a full remote grading session (and more), in that:

    • If there are two SCRATCH seats connected via Remote, then when the Moderator takes control of the system, you actually see the dials moving on the 2nd system, and at that time, the actual project metadata is changed on the 2nd system.
    • Media does not have to be mirrored. In fact, media does not have to exist at all on other systems.
    • One option is… in the case of two systems connected - SystemA can push frames to systemB in very close to realtime as a lossless, secure J2K stream. That is a background process and - if bandwidth is good enough - very fast.
    • It does not have to be a full SCRATCH on the other end.
    • The point of having more than two people connected has nothing to do with multiple colorists. It is for collaboration and review. Think of it this way… A SCRATCH operator can be connected to 3 (or 4 or 5…) other people in a Remote session. The SCRATCH operator is the Moderator. They are the only one that can control changing the image or assigning another "Moderator", who will then have control of the image. But, everybody can tap on the screen and that shows up as a colored cursor on everybody else’s screen. So when someone wants, “no dude… I mean tweak THAT part of the frame,” they can draw a little circle and it appears on everyone’s screen. Similar to the drawing/annotation tools in something like Cinesync.

    One example I have seen be very effective is when there is a VFX artist on one side and an on-set person on the other side. They connect via a Remote session and can make very quick decisions about whether a particular shot/take is working or not. And because of the secure, peer-to-peer J2K stream that goes from systemA to B, the VFX artist can actually start working on comps immediately, then feedback to set, complete with project metadata. It is a true remote SCRATCH session.


    Regarding the discussion around ASSIMILATE’s market…


    That’s a good question, and something I think all software companies in this space are doing a significant amount of navel-gazing around.


    Here is what I can tell you…


    ASSIMILATE has just released a suite of online tools, of which Remote is just one. I encourage folks to take a look at the ASSIMILATE Vimeo channel, where there are now a crapload of videos explaining the Repository, Remote, SCRATCH Web, and Gallery.


    And I’m not going to give exact numbers… but I can tell you that there are several thousand active SCRATCH Play users out there…


    …ASSIMILATE just announced officially licensed-by-Apple ProRes rendering on Windows. Software-only.


    …ASSIMILATE has a very close relationship with Microsoft and was featured in Panos’s worldwide launch of Surface2 in NYC.


    ...and there are a lot of markets out there besides post-production where tools like this are very valid.


    Just because ASSIMILATE doesn’t talk about its markets on Reduser doesn’t mean those markets don’t exist. ; )


    Best,


    Lucas
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #49  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,904
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Wilson View Post
    Jake - you are an effective and passionate advocate for Resolve. And that’s cool. I like passion for a product. And your *opinion* is just as valid as anyone’s.
    Actually Lucas, I resent your statement very much. For one I had never been an advocate for Resolve and, I'm sure, BMD would have a few choice words to say about about my perceived "advocacy":-) If you knew even a little bit about me or if you'd spent any time following my posts here or on Creative Cow or LGG, you'd know very well, that I take BMD to task on many Resolve issues all the time. Also, an attempt to pigeonhole me as "just a Resolve guy" is a condescending as well. It would be, if I stated, that you're just a software salesmen. Again, you have no idea what I do and what I use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Wilson View Post
    But you don’t know SCRATCH. You don't if the VFX capabilities of SCRATCH are “limited,” because you’re not a SCRATCH artist. And you don’t know if it’s “quick,” because… you’re not a SCRATCH artist. When presenting capabilities, stick to what you know, and tell us what Resolve can and cannot do. Everything else is an opinion. <insert old joke about opinions and a***oles>
    Yes, I happen to be familiar with Scratch. In the past I had used it quite extensively until it became, in my opinion, somewhat irrelevant in todays market. Having limited VFX capabilities doesn't make Scratch a VFX platform. If I needed a "bicubic deformation tool trackable in 3D space" I would rather use tools designed for it from the ground up (Nuke, Smoke or even just announced Mamba on a Mac) and not as an afterthought. Your cheap shots at Resolve for not having VFX capabilities make no sense. I actually happen to like BMD's focus on Resolve's core strengths. I find Scratch's remote grading implementation a bit gimmicky. On the other hand Resolve's remote grading is solid as a rock (I had been using it for over 3 years), not dependent on a bandwidth (when the broadband internet goes down we just switch to an iPhone and use it as a personal hotspot for the internet connection) and it is a proven tool in the market place. Said that, I wish Resolve could use similar technology, where it automatically supplies J2K frames to the remote station. I had been asking BMD for this capability for at least two years. Also I'd like to make a clarification. No, the material doesn't have to be "mirrored" on both Resolves. If the time and the bandwidth is of the essence, the material on the remote master station can be of a higher compression. For example, my remote client used Resolve on Linux and the material was DPX, while I was using Prores of the same material on a Mac Resolve. The only requirement for remote grading on Resolve is the material on both devices has to have the same number of frames and it must be the same resolution. So, I'd like to "mirror" your suggestion and recommend, that you stick with what YOU know.
    And finally, contrary to your implication, I welcome more companies in the market as well as healthy competition. I just can't understand the market segment presently occupied by Scratch. It's not really an inexpensive platform and not quite high end designed to compete with the big boys in the hero grading suites. Yes, I know there are some. Scratch is not quite a top color grading platform, like Baselight, Nucoda, Pablo or even Lustre nor is it a capable VFX software. So, what exactly is it?
    Thank you Lucas for chiming in. Interested to hear your thoughts...
    Jake Blackstone
    Colorist
    Los Angeles
    MOD Color Web Site
    Demo Reel
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #50  
    Member Daniel Esperanssa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    France
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Sepaniak View Post
    While I don't presume to speak for Daniel, it certainly appears that he does. See:

    http://www.assimilateinc.com/contact

    ________________________________
    Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
    “… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

    Leitaxed Zeiss Lenses:

    CY 21/2.8
    ZF 28/2.0
    CY 35-70/3.4
    CY 50/1.4
    ZF100/2.0
    CY135/2.8

    Nikon Lenses:
    G 14-24/2.8
    G 24-70/2.8
    D 80-200/2.8

    Tokina Lenses:

    11-16/2.8
    Sorry guys, this was my mistake on a late night and just thought my signature was including the company name (i'm not posting so often).
    Thanks to your vigilance, Bill.
    Nevertheless my reply reflected my personal opinion which, fortunately, sometimes matches with Assimilate's vision ;-)

    Cheers to all,
    Daniel
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts