Thread: Davinci resolve verus Scratch

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  1. #31  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Björn Benckert View Post
    You are joking, no?
    Does it look like I'm joking? I'd love to see a huge smile on your face, if Flame premium started to sell for $995 and Smoke was given away for free. Oh yeah, free upgrades included for life too. Now that would be somewhat equivalent of what BMD had done with Resolve.
    Definition of predatory pricing from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing:
    "Predatory pricing (also undercutting) is a pricing strategy where a product or service is set at a very low price, intending to drive competitors out of the market, or create barriers to entry for potential new competitors"
    Also, specifically in US " the Court established that for prices to be predatory, they must be below the seller's cost." Well, that is a slam dunk, because Resolve Lite is given away for free and so are the Resolve updates. Surely, developing them cost more.
    Monopoly is not illegal in itself with Microsoft as a prime example, but predatory pricing and monopolistic behavior kinda is. Well, at least in US. Unfortunately, I don't think there are no longer any american companies, that produce products, that directly compete with BMD's Resolve.
    So, it falls to other countries to deal with this issue.
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Most View Post
    In the US, antitrust laws are a joke. They are never enforced, and when they are, they are quickly unenforced. Perhaps you remember when AT&T was broken up. Oh, sure, it's easy to forget, since it was allowed to re-form and become much larger than it ever was before the breakup. There are lots of laws on the US books to regulate business - predatory pricing among them - and encourage competition. So how come nearly every major industry in this country is controlled by no more than 3 companies? Sometimes even less than that....

    Like I said, it's all pretty much a joke. Companies own the politicians that are responsible for creating the laws to regulate them. And as long as that's the case, it will remain a joke.
    Everyone NEEDS phones. On the other hand, overwhelming majority doesn't NEED color grading. Therefore, former warranted Justice Dept. investigation. Latter, not so much.
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  3. #33  
    i started learn color grading in 2010 on My 15" MacBook Pro i7 + 512MB Nvidia 330m.

    Davinci ( lite ):
    first problem : i couldn't learn on davinci because of some technical limitations regarding to the screen resolution .
    Sec problem : after they fix the resolution problems i tried it again but my computer couldn't handle it .. the app needed more GPU power & doesn't support my GPU .

    So i left the app after a couple of days with SCRATCH 6 ( A friend in LA gave me his studio license) " its weird UI got me a nightmares at the beginning especially with exporting window : / " but the strange and beautiful thing about it .. its playback engine !! its really well made and i never saw something like that in my life !!
    i graded with SCRATCH a full RED One test project with 4k mid-res playback !!! now I regret beginning with scratch first :/ I don't know how to use davinci and am trying to get my self a free time with the 10th version to make my first demo reel after 3 years of learning the science it self .

    finally i wish davinci have a play back engine like scratch and scratch to have a lower price :(
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  4. #34  
    I bought Scratch around 5 years ago - and it's been serving as the hub of my studio ever since. It's been a rock-solid workhorse for conforming, data management, vfx workflow, and of course grading and finishing. It's really powerful and fast - with great native filetype support for pretty much all relevant cameras. The compositing tools are okay - although I take most of the real compositing work out of Scratch into other tools. But then Scratch is great at organizing and splitting out shots for vfx, and bringing versions back in.

    Of course Resolve is equally powerful - albeit in different ways. Since the price drop I've tried to get into it a couple of times but the interface doesn't really click with me so it'll take some more time to start seeing the benefit of it, which at the moment I don't have.

    If you're just starting out, the price will make the decision for you. Resolve is free so there's no reason to look further. But if you're running a serious business, the cost of Scratch shouldn't be a big chunk of your budget, on a yearly basis. Considering you'll need a fast machine anyway, fast storage, good monitoring, control panels, calibration tools and you should probably pay some attention to the room lighting and furniture. By then, the software cost is only a small part of the equation. So in my case I happily pay my support fees to Assimilate to keep Scratch as the workhorse central hub in my studio - even though Resolve is free.
    Raamw3rk
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barend Onneweer View Post
    If you're just starting out, the price will make the decision for you. Resolve is free so there's no reason to look further. But if you're running a serious business, the cost of Scratch shouldn't be a big chunk of your budget, on a yearly basis.
    Correction: daVinci Resolve costs $995 to buy for the full version. The full version of Scratch is $20,995 according to the company's website. Even the smaller Scratch Lab version of the program is $5990. I don't see how this competes in today's business economy. I'm suspicious of the whole idea of "subscribing" to software via yearly contracts; I've seen this go bad, either when the company has incompatible upgrades, or when there are software/operating system update conflicts. Owning the software outright has a lot of advantages, particularly when it's dongle-controlled and portable to the extent that you can run it on multiple locations as necessary.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  6. #36  
    Senior Member mikeburton's Avatar
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    I just wish they would get married, and have the perfect child. I love them both for different reasons.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeburton View Post
    I just wish they would get married, and have the perfect child. I love them both for different reasons.
    Anything that gets the job done can work. I've used 13 different color-correction systems in 30 years -- it's like driving in a different car to get to the same place. But to my way of thinking, Resolve is a very, very tough product to beat, particularly given the price, speed, features, and the rapid pace at which Blackmagic releases updates. They're a very sharp company; I've never seen a post software company stay on top of their product so well.
    marc wielage, csi • colorist/post consultant • daVinci Resolve Certified Trainer
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  8. #38  
    Mark, most people I see starting out are actually on Resolve Lite which is indeed - as I stated - free. If anything this supports your argument.

    Here's the thing: I pay $3000 a year in Scratch support, since I don't rent. It doesn't really make a dent in my budget. 20k as a starting price is of course steep compared to free or even $995. But once you include everything needed for a full grading suite (especially if you include projection) - the proportions start to look different. And then I just prefer Scratch over Resolve.
    Raamw3rk
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  9. #39 Precision 
    Member Daniel Esperanssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
    Correction: daVinci Resolve costs $995 to buy for the full version. The full version of Scratch is $20,995 according to the company's website. Even the smaller Scratch Lab version of the program is $5990. I don't see how this competes in today's business economy. I'm suspicious of the whole idea of "subscribing" to software via yearly contracts; I've seen this go bad, either when the company has incompatible upgrades, or when there are software/operating system update conflicts. Owning the software outright has a lot of advantages, particularly when it's dongle-controlled and portable to the extent that you can run it on multiple locations as necessary.

    Hi to all,
    Just a few comments about the posts i saw in this thread:

    $$$: For sure you can buy a "full" or LAB license but, because there are also freelancers among us, there's also a rental plan per day, week, month or year and a full blown Scratch becomes USD 5K a year while the LAB is USD 995, both including update builds and full support. So if 5K puts a business in danger, then it's time to think about a plan B.

    Remote: Only limitation for the amount of connected systems is...you internet bandwidth. Also "Remote" is not limited to grading but also compositing and editing, aka "fully creative" sessions. Each of the participants can be moderator at a time If Scratch detects that the media is not available on the distant systems, it will provide (in the background) frames to the remote locations based on the quality setting selected in the Preferences (up to uncompressed if i remember correctly) of the initiator Scratch software.

    The best would be for some of you to give it a try. Scratch V8 "Finish" download is freely available and comes with a 90 days fully operational license. Now let's talk about pricing again ;-)

    Cheers
    Daniel
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  10. #40  
    Senior Member jake blackstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Esperanssa View Post
    Hi to all,
    Just a few comments about the posts i saw in this thread:

    $$$: For sure you can buy a "full" or LAB license but, because there are also freelancers among us, there's also a rental plan per day, week, month or year and a full blown Scratch becomes USD 5K a year while the LAB is USD 995, both including update builds and full support. So if 5K puts a business in danger, then it's time to think about a plan B.

    Remote: Only limitation for the amount of connected systems is...you internet bandwidth. Also "Remote" is not limited to grading but also compositing and editing, aka "fully creative" sessions. Each of the participants can be moderator at a time If Scratch detects that the media is not available on the distant systems, it will provide (in the background) frames to the remote locations based on the quality setting selected in the Preferences (up to uncompressed if i remember correctly) of the initiator Scratch software.

    The best would be for some of you to give it a try. Scratch V8 "Finish" download is freely available and comes with a 90 days fully operational license. Now let's talk about pricing again ;-)

    Cheers
    Daniel
    Hi Daniel.
    Are you in any way connected or working for Assimilate? If you are, you need to disclose it. Otherwise, if you are working for Assimilate and don't let everyone know about it, it looks a bit misleading to talk glowingly about Scratch while denigrating Assimilate's competitors…
    So, about the remote grading feature. It starts like an old joke: How many colorists does it take to grade something? If it takes more than one, count me out. Let's say I'm a colorist on a remote grading session and all of a sudden someone else wants to take over the session or in your parlance to be a "moderator". I had never heard of a grading session with more than one colorist. Why would I want work in a session with five other colorists? BTW, is the client going to pay for all five? And why is internet bandwidth is even a consideration?
    Jake Blackstone
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