Thread: Tridods?

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  1. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by phaz View Post
    I never really liked the miller heads, Always found it hard to dial the
    tilt and drag the way i wanted.
    Yep, I have the Miller Solo CF sticks and they're great. The head - not so much, very rudimentary drag controls, and the lock for the plate is crude. Buy the sticks though, very light and pretty stiff.
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  2. #12  
    Greetings from Florida. This is my first post on this board although I have been following Red very closely from the beginning (including running up and down the aisles that Monday morning of NAB last year trying to just FIND the Red booth). I work for a University (a state one at that) and we've been given a reasonably sizable budget to equip ourselves for HD. Our previously small budgets relegated us to the world of Panasonic DVX100's which have suited us fine for our work in the past, but we are now ready to take at least some of our productions to the next level.

    So, I'm not very well-versed in the world of "proper" tripods (we just use sub-$500 Manfrottos for the DVX's) and am looking for some recommendations. First off, any guesstimates on how much the Red will weigh with cage, batteries, Red Drive, EVF, Nikon 35mm still lens, mattebox and follow focus? I've roughly budgeted $2500 for the tripod so try to keep your recommendations in that neighborhood if possible.

    We shoot a variety of EFP type situations from interviews to location shots and some studio work. We need something versatile and smooth, but it does not have to be the most amazing thing you've ever used. All of our work is in fairly tame environments in Florida so we won't be putting it through quite the array of rigors that you guys do.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. I've learned a great deal from all of you already! Thanks.
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  3. #13  
    Hi Josh,

    Here are my recommendations for Tripods on a budget. I think you will find all of these comfortably with your budget.

    Vinten Vision System 3 (22lbs) ~$2,000

    Vinten Pro-10DC System (22lbs) ~$1,330

    Libec LS60 High Standard Video Tripod (13Kgs) ~$1,500

    Sachtler System DV 6 (13lbs) $1,749

    I'm sure other folks will have their own strong opinions but these are definately worth looking at before you make a descision. I've been using Vinten for about three years and consider them very good value for money (because I'm a cheapskate!). My mate prefers Libec in the same price band. I think Sachtler are good but not as good value for money -IMO.

    All the best, Phil
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  4. #14  
    Well, I came across this tripod business as well when I thought of "modernising" my equipment. I own two tripods:

    A 20 years old Sachtler Horizont 16mm head with aluminium legs.

    A 30 years old Sachtler Horizont 35mm head, also heavy aluminium legs.

    Neither system is kind of "nice". This is the reason why I always rent proper stuff if I rent anyway.

    This said I would never recommend DV-level tripods - much to light for RED.
    My 16mm Sachtler tripod is even for a Arri SR with a small zoom too light. My old 35mm pig is much better.

    Before I would by a new tripod around 3k I would always go for an used workhorse in usable condition, for instance Sachtler Video 25 / Horizont 7x7

    I will keep my old 35mm pig. But I will get new nice, CF legs. Made by Schulz. Very high quality EFP gear, 2 times extendable. In case I start hating my old pig I will check the market for decent but used heads: O'Connor, Sachtler, perhaps Vinten (never used one... actually Sachtler belongs to Vinten)
    Don't get misled by new shiny stuff. The rented heads I like most is a 15 year old O'Connor and a Mitchell gear head. Both much to heavy for EFP but nice, very nice. For EFP I rent a SachtlerVideo 25 or use my old pig.

    Hans
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  5. #15  
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    I do a lot of shooting with a beta cam on vinten 11. The movement is OK but the locks seem to need cranked down tighter and tighter, like they are wearing out. No worse feeling then thinking you have your camera locked off only to look over at it and see it starting to tip. I have recently used the Cartoni Focus with the HVX 200, love the feel and ease of use. I think I'm going to try the cartoni gamma with my red.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Larry McKee's Avatar
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    I bought a Cartoni Gamma 6 or 7 years ago to go under my BetaCam SP rig. I love it. It worked great with my DVX100 and now it is doing a wonderful job with my HVX200 with and without the Redrock M2. I have had it loaded up with the BetaCam with a teleprompter on several occasions and it never acted like it was under a strain. I have no doubt it will work with the RED.

    For sticks, I have the single stage Cartoni aluminum legs. I also have a set of carbon fiber single stage Cartonis that I use with my 6' jib. The carbon fiber legs have an older twist lock that you can really crank down. For baby legs, I use a set of Bogen sticks.

    I have never been comfortable with Vinten since a lock slipped once and the camera and teleprompter went crashing to the floor. Naturally it was the leg across from me so I was grabbing at air as the camera went away.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Damien Molineaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil_Light View Post
    Hi Josh,

    Here are my recommendations for Tripods on a budget. I think you will find all of these comfortably with your budget.

    Vinten Vision System 3 (22lbs) ~$2,000

    Vinten Pro-10DC System (22lbs) ~$1,330

    Libec LS60 High Standard Video Tripod (13Kgs) ~$1,500

    Sachtler System DV 6 (13lbs) $1,749

    I'm sure other folks will have their own strong opinions but these are definately worth looking at before you make a descision. I've been using Vinten for about three years and consider them very good value for money (because I'm a cheapskate!). My mate prefers Libec in the same price band. I think Sachtler are good but not as good value for money -IMO.

    All the best, Phil
    Although these may be great, I'm happily using a Vinten 3 myself, I don't think they're designed for something the size of a Red One.

    Regarding weight, we don't have exact figures yet, but we know the body's coming in at between 8 and 9 pounds, add to that : battery, Red drive, EVF or LCD (maybe both), rods, handles, LENS, mattebox, follow focus. Depending on your setup, you should have a tripod capable of taking 20 to 30 pounds confortably. Remember a tripod performs best when your camera weighs in the middle of the recommended weight range.

    If I don't find something appropriate second hand and can afford it, I will go with an O'Connor 1030HD, count $5'000. The Panther X15, seen being used by the Red team while shooting the drag races with Frankie, looks pretty sweet, $ 5'600 for the system.

    Good luck,
    Damien

    PS Tripods are expensive, but they should last a long time, longer than most digital cameras.
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  8. #18  
    Red Savant Steve Gibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthling View Post
    Regarding weight, we don't have exact figures yet, but we know the body's coming in at between 8 and 9 pounds, add to that : battery, Red drive, EVF or LCD (maybe both), rods, handles, LENS, mattebox, follow focus.
    A significant portion of the EFP/ENG shooters will not be using rods, use only one handle, no matte box, and no follow focus. IMO, depending on whether it is EFP/ENG or cine style shooting with RED One, the camera/lens/accessories package can weigh as little as 14 pounds, or as much as 55-60 pounds. Choice of a tripod will depend on the weight/genres of each individual project. IMO, if someone does a wide range of EFP/ENG and cine style projects, one tripod will simply not satisfy the needs of that range of productions. They will need to have at least two tripods (or rent them as needed): a mobile lightweight mid-range EFP style tripod, and a big, solid-head, heavyweight tripod for more stationary production.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Damien Molineaux's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure, unless you really want to get a light tripod which is barely able to hold your Red.

    I don't see how you could get a Red to way in at 55 to 60 pounds. The main things to add are a mattebox and follow focus. I would think many EFP/ENG shooters will go with two rods and handles AND a zoom lens which weighs considerably more than the primes many D-cinema shooters will use. So I don't see the weight being that different between the different styles of shooting. Since for optimum results you want a tripod where your camera fits in the middle of the weight range, I would think for most users a good tripod will allow most types of shooting.

    Cheers,
    Damien
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  10. #20  
    Red Savant Steve Gibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthling View Post
    I don't see how you could get a Red to way in at 55 to 60 pounds.
    In some genres of cine style production, and even a few EFP style genres, cameras regularly get loaded up with heavy accessories/lens combinations that can weigh as much as 55-60 pounds, including the plate. Example: for certain genres of production (nature, sports, etc.), older long telephoto lenses and long zoom lenses are used. Some of those lenses can weigh as much as 25-30 pounds on their own. Add in the camera, and a bunch of accessories and it’s easy to get over 50 pounds with the camera weight. Second example: a cine-style production with camera, traditional S35mm zoom, rods, matte box, EVF, LCD, multiple batteries, drive, plate, and the multiple others accessories of other accessories, can easily weigh as much as 55-60 pounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthling View Post
    The main things to add are a mattebox and follow focus. I would think many EFP/ENG shooters will go with two rods and handles AND a zoom lens which weighs considerably more than the primes many D-cinema shooters will use.
    This is an EFP/ENG forum, and as I mentioned in my post #18, IMO many EFP/ENG shooters will not use a matte box, follow focus, rods, and only use one handle. Those accessories are almost never used with B4 2/3” HD ENG zooms, but are usually used with 2/3” HD cine lenses. B4 2/3” HD ENG zoom lenses typically weigh under 5 pounds, whereas D-cinema primes can easily weigh more than that, and D-cinema zooms (S35mm and S16mm) usually weigh much more than 2/3” HD ENG zooms. Traditional cine lenses are almost always heavier than EFP/ENG lenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthling View Post
    So I don't see the weight being that different between the different styles of shooting. Since for optimum results you want a tripod where your camera fits in the middle of the weight range, I would think for most users a good tripod will allow most types of shooting.
    Here’s just a tiny list of the many genres and sub-genres that RED One can be used in:

    Feature “films”, Indie “films”, HDTV programs of various genres, Commercials, Infomercials, Business videos, News b-roll, Events, Broadcast teases and promos, Public service announcement, and on and on – probably the broadest list of potential uses of any camera system ever made.

    Each of those genres and sub-genres will require a wide variety of lens/accessory combinations to effectively do the work. Some of them will require lightweight packages, and some of them will require very heavy packages. If someone only does a few genres of production, and those genres require similar weight packages, then I agree that one single tripod may suffice for that person. But if they do the wide range of genres that RED One is capable of, then IMO one single tripod will not suffice. In those cases, a 2-tripod rotation will be needed. One day they may be hiking into the wilderness with a lightweight carbon fiber tripod setup to shoot some stock footage, and the very next day be loading up RED One with a super heavy, stationary package for a hardlined EFP or cine style production. The same tripod will not work for a broad range of productions like that.

    If you feel you can get by with a single tripod, it better be a very good one that is right in the middle range of the genres you work in. IMO if you want to work in all the genres and sub-genres that RED One enables, you’ll either need to own a 2-tripod system, or plan on renting tripods that have capabilities outside those of the one single tripod you own.
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